New Mars Forums

That person is most likely owned.  I am sure that person has no choice in the matter.

Actually I was considering making a new topic "Know Your Isims".  But this will draw less dangerous attention, and will do well enough.  When I was young, books, like "Know Your Guppie", were around, so, I think the proposed title would not be that bad.

I came to me more clearly what is going on, this morning, so I want to talk about it.

The "Blank Slatism", is one thing and a modification of Darwinism is yet another.  Nurture and Nature.

You could go Communist vs, Fascist.  But those are just masks they wear lots of the time.

B.S. ism is in the Communist, Socialist ring, an induced cruelty with the intention of promoting a good effect from a Darwinism is the other.  The NAZI seemed to believe that just imposing a cruel conflict could bring forth a superior result.
This is not so surprising that a guy with a small mustache and a notion that he was a creative painter would think that the brush of cruelty would have good results.

But we are sort of aware of that or becoming aware of it, but what about "Teachism"?  This gives me understanding of why leftism occurs on Colledge Campuses.  After all they are selling the idea that they can paint a new you on your canvas, which may well be a Blank Slate.

And we have Appointism, and Certificationism.  Of course, the professors can tell society who is worthy to hold positions of power, or so they say.

Don't get me wrong, I get it that if you can endure such training and seem of a proficiency that is high in it that is worth something.

But you need to be aware of verbalism.  Some people have 5 times as many words as others.  That just means that they have more words.  It does not indicate that they have much that is important behind their words.  (But they could sometimes).

The entire notion that the public school system was going to benefit the human race in the manner done after the "Country School House", is stupid.  It favors children who grow up sooner, as they are more mature earlier, but those are said sometimes to end up in trailer courts.  (I am sure there are lots of exceptions).

But it was designed to provide semi-educated servant people for the industrial complex.  Actually, I should be grateful for that, as it provided even me with some material stuff.  I am not completely stupid, I understand trade-offs.

But many animals are ready for adult life well before humans are, that does not make humans inferior to the other animals.

There is less to be bitter about as the world of the internet provides training of various sorts if you have the nature for it and you choose to nurture your own self.

It is good.

Done

As per my last post, let us not forget our bygone membership: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7092

Not the same exactly, at all, but a shell which does not enclose a world.  In the family, perhaps a "Shirt Sleeve" relative.

Not Flatoid though.

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So, it begins to seem to me that the ? (Not quite density) of an object determines the ratio of solar forces vs gravitational force.

As far as the solar wind is concerned the Earth is less dense with a magnetic field than without one.

As far as to total amount of force photons exert on the Earth, the Earth's magnetic field does not exist.

Smaller objects seem to have fewer stable orbits than larger ones.  Dust might be swept out of the solar system if it is of the correct size.

I you converted Ceres into a giant shell completely, it would have the same total gravitation but that would be distributed differently.  But the force of Photons and Solar wind would be greater.  So, to some degree gravitation allows objects to communicate with each other to maintain orbital patterns developed early in the solar system, but at some point if you change the ratio of gravitation of an object to forces that are exerted on an object, then it is possible that an object might deviate from its orbit.

That is why a solar sail might work.  It does not have sufficient gravity to be locked into place.

But maybe I don't have it right just yet.  Tell me so it you think that.

Anyway, for a Dyson Sphere, if you made it of hollow spheres, that would be interesting, but would the solar wind spin them up to higher orbits, or could they be locked into stable orbits, by gravitation?

The way I look at it now photons may not be that much trouble as they would more equally give additive and subtractive thrust to a hollow sphere.  But the solar wind spirals out, it might give a force to push hollow spheres with insufficient gravity, to higher orbits.

As I have said maybe I don't have the correct model in my head, but this is what I am thinking.

But a sphere with a significant mass, might be kept locked into place by the influences of the larger objects of the solar system.

A sphere allows interception of a lot of photons from the sun.  It would also have a hollow space within with a modified space environment.
And you could have travel paths over the interior or exterior surface of the sphere, and also you could have line paths within the sphere, such as cables or trusses which could connect one point on the interior of the sphere with another.

Any thoughts?

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If we get borged with spheres, perhaps a cube?

Done

Well, I feel that that segway stimulated by Calliban helped in the formation of a "Ladder" geostationary hoop.  Such would be two rigid rails, a north and a south, that would be joined by rigid ladder rungs.  And swiveling devices could be connected by some sort of bearing to the two rails, in places between the rigid ladder rungs.  This would be a form of "Nesting" of small elements into a larger superstructure.

Some Finish people have suggested a Megga Satellite around Ceres which would also foster "Nesting": https://www.sciencealert.com/could-huma … anet-ceres
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But these are not "Hill Sphere Shells".  I wonder if other asteroids could support such shells.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_e … _asteroids
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Scrolling down:
The "S", "M", and "X" asteroids may well lack an abundance of volatile substances, but the others may have much.
But even volcanic Vesta is thought to be covered with Carbonaceous dust on much of its surface.

Some questions emerge.

A hill sphere shell may be easier with a smaller asteroid.  And also, the notion of perhaps a "Beyond Hill Sphere" shell.

You could even have a shell that has no world inside of it at all.

If such shells were thought of as a digestive system, they might ingest small asteroids and process them.

Unless I am in a mistake(s), then I think that a shell equal or larger than a hill sphere, will not suffer from gravity induced warping and collapse, if the world object contained can be kept centered.

My intention for these shells would not be that they would hold a high air pressure, but rather thin gasses subject to molecular flow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_molecular_flow
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So, a bit like an exosphere, but perhaps a thick one.

In this condition a hole in the shell will let some gas escape, but not from collective molecular motion but just because that hole was in the path the molecule was traveling in a straight line.

There is a question as to if the pressures from solar emissions will push the shell outward.  Photons, and the Solar Wind.  I don't know the answers yet.  I suspect that there is an aligning force from the major planets that may tend to keep objects in place, if their gravity dimple is large enough, relative to the other forces exerted on the object, such as from the sun.  So, there may be value in anchoring on a large enough of the tiny worlds, if that is true.

The purposes of such a shell are to contain things, to provide a solar exposed surface for solar power devices, and a sphere where nested objects can be associated into.

And I am not sure of all of this.  A shell on its own may not have a large enough gravity dimple to be "Noticed" by the larger objects of the solar system, so it may be free to obey the solar wind and the photon pressure on it.  So, an advantage may exist for holding a significant mass inside of it, so that perhaps the shell and the mass it encloses, may stay in an appointed orbit.

But as I have said I am not sure.  This is where perhaps we learn more.

If a shell is solar locked, with one side facing the sun and the other facing the outwards from the sun, then considerable cold may exist on the outward portions of the shell.  This may be used to condense molecules of gas that are in Molecular flow inside of the shell.  Adsorption could be used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adsorption

OK, perhaps sorption then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorption
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So, then an object in the shell could be heated as desired to gas off, but not at a rate faster than your sorption methods can handle.

And this leaves the problem, how do you keep the treated object centered in the shell?  Magnetics might work.  Maybe some complex mechanical method,   The object may likely spin and we do not want to spin this shell.

Possibly air pressure might help, if you could shoot jets of compressed air from the inside of the shell, or inversely have a second interior shell that encases the object and spins with it, and then that shell emits jets of gas into the region between shells. 

I would like to see if magnetics could do it.

In process, I guess.

Done

Keep in mind that one of the values of the shell is the amount of sunlight it can intercept.

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You have stimulated my thinking, you and Isaac Arthurs video.  What I was working with may be less attainable and/or stable than I would like.  It was an attempt to conserve volatiles.  But if the human race eventually develops fusion of isotopes of Hydrogen and perhaps Helium, or if they learn how to beam power extremely long distances, then, and endless flow of volatiles can come inward from the Kuiper belt and even the Oort Cloud.

So, conservation of volatiles does not have to be quite so stringent.  This then allows the entertainment of what you have suggested, and perhaps also some embellishments of it.

A practical path is to make something that can be in harmony with its surroundings, and also which is not too vulnerable to terrorists, and idiot savants who may see a path to a parasitic damage of what is built to benefit themselves.

Unfortunately, we will likely always have some people who refuse to walk on their two hind paws.

So, you suggest a "Nulled Ring" where gravitation of Ceres and the centrifugal spin will balance to keep stability.

Looking at Isaac Arthurs work, I notice that Ceres has a 4-degree tilt of axis, and it thought to be variable in that aspect between 2 to 20 degrees tilt.

We might consider building a mini version of what he suggested without artificial gravity induced on the ring, but rather artificial gravity on spin gravity devices attached to the ring.  If the ring is properly built than spinners with axis parallel to the axis of Ceres could spin for artificial gravity but mirrors also on the ring could convey light into them if that was desired.  In a similar manner, solar power devices could swivel on such an axis as well, but only one spin per rotation of Ceres, synchronous, so that much of the time they gather solar energy.

But we have another game we can play.  If we move mass from Ceres out to the ring, then the spin should be reduced.  But then you need to expand the circumference of the ring to compensate, but the gravity of Ceres is reduced, and the spin rate of Ceres may be reduced.

Here are some images of Banks Orbit, but what is being discussed here has similarity but are not Banks Orbitals: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Ba … C3&first=1

So, one could go as far as they like, even eventually consuming all of Ceres to build a very big one.  So, then the gravitational field would be dispersed.  But perhaps only a partial conversion would make sense.

If we say that Ceres or another asteroid has a north and south rotational pole, then the ring would have a north and south edge/mooring point.  Then the Satellite axis of the individual devices would have bearings one on the north edge of the ring and one on the south edge of the ring.  This could be true for synthetic gravity machines, and for solar power devices, whatever type you like of those.

And the ring being like a ladder with rungs connecting the north and south rims, could allow sunshine to these devices much of the time.  In the case of the solar devices, they may pivot once for each orbit of Ceres, and in the case of the space habitats, mirrors might convey light into them much of the time, and maybe it can be a bit like variations in sunlight during a partly cloudy day.  So, you might fake a day/night balance.

Does that seem to be reasonable?

Done

The USA and I think Canada also have a lot of "Oil Shale" which is not to be confused with "Shale Oil".  If prices got high enough or technology improvements allowed it this might also be tapped.  (Ignoring climate implications).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale

But if nuclear or orbital solar or other develop, probably it stays in the ground.

https://www.usgs.gov/centers/central-en … /oil-shale
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Another "Competitor Robot".  This may annoy "Nationalists".  But I just expect that it will prompt others to do more as well.

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE  Quote:

A few thoughts from me:
-Nature usually favors Quadrupeds, and on rare occasions Bipeds.

-But with a little math, Quadruped + Biped = Hexapod
-So then 4 + 2 = 6, but also 2 + 4 = 6

-Of course, this cheats a bit because actually Bipeds also have arms which technically are legs in other animals.
-But let's not worry about that.  I am interested in making Centaur Robots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centaur
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You could put a humanoid upper body on top of a robot dog, or more interesting you could hook a second set of legs onto a bipedal robot.

You could even hook a wheeled cart to the back end of that, or to the bipedal robot.  So, you could do multiple attachments.
If you wanted to be silly you could make a connectable centipede with humanoid upper torso included.
Each "Posterior Part", could have its own battery pack which like as in Tesla Cars, as I understand it could be structural as well as electric.  On top of each battery pack could be a "Wagon Bed", to put parts and equipment into.

So, ideally the assembly could travel to a location to do a task, and have what is needed with it.  The humanoid biped might be able to disconnect and work bipedal, and then have access to the parts and tools that the rear additions carry.  The rear additions having less actuators might be able to carry more power as per batteries.

In reality, for now I see this as being suitable for work in farm fields, or to clean some things, such as solar panels which might also be in the farm fields.

Actually, this could work very well, Farm Crops, Solar Power local, and multipedal robot(s).  So, this robot unit could perhaps be able to charge local in the fields while it worked.

Additional legs may add to stability at times desired, but the ability to unhook, and go quadrupedal or Bipedal would also be an asset.

But I admit it will be very hard to train such an adaptable robot with attachments.

But someday perhaps.

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I was short on time in the previous post, so I will add some text for it.

In a partly terraformed Mars, where perhaps the average surface pressure was doubled, control of nucleation dust may help to redistribute water on the planet.  Also, of course greenhouse gasses, and added heat from orbit may help.

Sources of dust to inject might be from Phobos, Deimos, or even. Mars.

As for Mars, it might be desirable to try to inhibit nucleation dust in some locations, if a method can be found.

At the present tilt of the planet, water will tend to move to the poles as frost or snow.

But with dust controls it might be possible to bias the flow towards lower latitudes as per nucleation.

With greenhouse gasses, I believe it warms the poles more than the equator.

And power satellites and mirrors in orbit could also assist in the future hydrology of Mars.

Done

I have had that in the past.  It often helps to navigate to a post you did recently and then try to log on.  Persistence also helps.

I had a terrible problem with it in the past, sometimes having to try 20 times.

I was good for a while, but I have seen a bit of it lately, but not too bad in my case.

Done.

This showed up today: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 37#p222537
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So, that may work for adults capable of running, which is worth quite a lot.

I would venture that if you had a spin gravity cylinder inside of a static cylinder, the speed or rotation could be low enough to allow pressurization.  And with a small, simulated gravity,

You could have a main pressure vessel that does not spin, and a spinner in it.  It may be possible to have a canister in the main pressure vessel that can give microgravity, as to be shielded from the vibrations of the rest of the structure.

So, in space manufacturing in LEO, this would perhaps allow prolonged human presence in a very large set of structures.  This would strogly reduce the need for reconditioning in a full scale 1 g circumstance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMYOmjgCuc
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I like the part where they suggest that Vast intends to have space stations "Across the Solar System".

I am willing to hope for it.

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This is yet another device: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE 

CNET, Utube, Giant Underwater Buoy Generates Power From Waves

Looks like it might be OK for places with some surface ice at times.

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Here is an artificial "Blowhole": https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ajaxhist=0

I think that this system could be hooked into a heat pump system, rather well.
If the heat pump was pulling heat out of the water, then the water shed off of the device should be cold and if you collected that cold water you might be able to condense fresh water from the air, using that cold.

Done.