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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,195

Wave Power Associated Systems

I recently posted in another topic which is about thermal storage, which can be in association with this new topic, but I think this may have justification for its own topic.

Here is the post in another topic I spoke about: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 66#p222366

This article has some very interesting information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_power
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Well that shows where wave resources are, and it is natural to like the more powerful situations, but it may be that some wave harvesting can be justified by waves not so wild as to challenge machines, and it also may be that there are adjacent resources that could be integrated into a plan.

For instance, the Gulf Stream: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream
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And Offshore Wind Power: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_wind_power
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These do seem to converge in some places, which is interesting.

In some places these things converge favorably where solar energy is not so good.  But sometimes even solar as well.

These things could be linked by Motor<>Generator processes, but I also am eyeballing direct mechanical links as potential as well.

Enter the Heat Pump, this one goes up to as much as 180 degrees C, which is considered useful for some industrial processes: https://www.sintef.no/en/latest-news/20 … pump-ever/

What has my attention most is if a wave power machine could be integrated into a heat pumping process, where the wave power machine may also be a heat exchanger.  Complexity of course causes trouble to make it work, but the rewards may be large to justify the trouble.

I guess we could have a look at global water temperatures: https://www.seatemperature.org/
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Here is the thing, a wave powered and/or wind powered heat pumping system, could have two useful outputs.  Hot water and cold water.
The hot water to be used for heating needs, and the cold water may be used to condense fresh water from the air, provided the water is sufficiently cool to cause dew on a condensing device.

And I guess a look at solar after all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy
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I guess the idea is that if your wave powered devices were also heat extraction devices for a heat pump system, then while drawing heat off, on the exterior of the wave power devices cold water would be shed, and would fall to the sea floor and it could be collected, and delivered to some type of condensation tower to promote condensation of sea air humidity into fresh water.

So, then perhaps a Twofer.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-04-27 07:05:30)

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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,498

Re: Wave Power Associated Systems

This post is reserved for an index to posts NewMars members may contribute over time.

(th)

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,195

Re: Wave Power Associated Systems

Supposing that cold sea water were an output of the system perhaps concepts like this could be used with that cold sea water:
https://newatlas.com/environment/drinki … tructures/
https://engineering.purdue.edu/ME/News/ … ver%20them.

Well, that might be a feature which could pay off somewhere someday.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-04-27 11:19:37)

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SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,021

Re: Wave Power Associated Systems

Since we are also dealing with tide height we must have a means to adjust the way the device moves up and down over that time period.

I have seen a dock as being a platform that can allow for tolerating this.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,195

Re: Wave Power Associated Systems

Thank You Spacenut, I overlooked that one.  Makes it more complicated, but I guess there must be ways, that wave power people do it.

We don't have tides here so you comment about the dock is helpful.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-04-27 14:12:28)

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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,195

Re: Wave Power Associated Systems

I wish to continue this with new suggestions.
https://www.oceanenergycouncil.com/ocea … ervoir.%20

We have looked at anchored wave power, but what about floating ships that rely on inertia and sea anchors to interact with the waves?

Let's suppose that on those you could generate hot fresh water at a temperature of up to 180 degrees C.
But you could also generate cold brine, and perhaps liquid air.

You could have smaller boats that move those products to the shoreline, or you could bring something the size of a supertanker into some ports.

A ship itself could be a condenser for humid air, in some circumstances.  Of course salt spray may be a problem.  But it may be possible.  Perhaps your input air would come from a "Crows Nest" high on a mast.

Your flexing elements, the ship, and attachments, being direct heat exchangers with the ocean water, you could use a heat pump to generate cold and hot.  The cold would be to condense water from the atmosphere, and then you could heat it to a high temperature.

So, then you could bring in hot potable water to ports.

In the UK, and other nations, it may be possible to go out to the gulf stream where evaporation rates may be high and where extractable heat may be favorable.

For instance, the Gulf Stream: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream
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And as I have said also, you might generate cold brine or even liquid air. 

The processes may be compatible, as you use wave energy to split heat with a heat pumping process to generate a hot and a cold extreme.

If that technology is possible then you can to the southern hemisphere as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_Forties
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The Clipper Route, taken by ships sailing from Europe to Australia in order to take advantage of the Roaring Forties

https://thegromlife.com/surfing/what-ar … aming-60s/
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What Are The Roaring 40s, Furious 50s, & Screaming 60s?

  Image Quote:

Starting off small and then moving to more, will there ever be a day when we get common metals from outer space, to build ships to harness this energy?  I will not say never, never say never.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-04-28 09:46:00)

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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,195

Re: Wave Power Associated Systems

I may just be ignorant, but I could imagine attaching this sort of device to the sides/perimeter of a ship to generate the power that would run a heat pump system.

https://solarimpulse.com/solutions-expl … wave-power
Image Quote:

And so, the ship itself and perhaps even the wave power receivers might double as heat exchangers with the water that sloshes about.

And you might get some kind of ship propulsion with this as well, as if you had rowers in a boat.

And as I have suggested, if you can condense water out of the air, then you might heat it up to perhaps as much as 180 degrees C.

And you could also create cold products. Such as cold brines, ice, or perhaps liquid air.

Then repeatedly take that cargo(s) to a port.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-04-28 15:05:49)

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Done.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,195

Re: Wave Power Associated Systems

Since I started this, I might as well add to it: https://corpowerocean.com/
Image quote:

Quite a few Video's here: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Co … ORM=HDRSC4

Resonant Effects: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=VMSOVR

Wells Wave Turbine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_turbine

I am inclined to think that the Wells Turbine method could be incorporated into a ship, and would have less moving parts, but also could do the heat exchanger notions that I am interested in.  Hopefully to generate hot and cold fluids.

I think this all looks very interesting.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-04-28 18:51:03)

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SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,021

Re: Wave Power Associated Systems

We know that we can add sails to a tanker and fuel is saved so why not wave energy to propel the ship by energy converted to electrical for the prop motor.

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,498

Re: Wave Power Associated Systems

For SpaceNut re #9

Your are in Void's level of creativity with that suggestion....

Please extend your thinking a bit ... you've tossed something out that just might work, but it would require a single human being to focus intently on the idea for an extended period of time, and deal with countless naysayers and skeptics.

My first reaction was on the skeptical side, because I've had the the experience of travel at sea, but the more I thought about your idea, the better it looks for a fixed platform with flexible arms holding floats out over the waves. The floats are going to deliver power to the platform, if a clever inventor were to design a system to capture it.  A coil moving past permanent magnets might be a solution.

Please keep this idea going a bit further.  If you are ** really ** lucky Void himself might like it and carry if forward.

(th)

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,195

Re: Wave Power Associated Systems

Somebody has looked into it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_power_ship
Quote:

Wave power ship

But it is not currently a major issue for me.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-04-29 09:51:24)

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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,195

Re: Wave Power Associated Systems

This is yet another device: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE 

CNET, Utube, Giant Underwater Buoy Generates Power From Waves

Looks like it might be OK for places with some surface ice at times.

Done

Here is an artificial "Blowhole": https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ajaxhist=0

I think that this system could be hooked into a heat pump system, rather well.
If the heat pump was pulling heat out of the water, then the water shed off of the device should be cold and if you collected that cold water you might be able to condense fresh water from the air, using that cold.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2024-04-29 11:11:41)

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Done.