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Here is a design that will work for travel between the ISS and the moon and be reusable.
First it would use the current Orion command module, directly behind this module would be a section that would have two hatches similiar to that of what is used at the fore of the command module. In this section a MPLM...
yawn..will work more on this tomorrow.
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Okay after doing some research here is the design for the Pilyhas -1 the first inter-lunal vehicle that could travel to the moon deliver crew and cargo and then re-turn to the ISS, be broken down into modules for storage and re-assembled for trips back to the moon.
This is phase one of project Pilyhas-1
Command Module (CM)
The command module would be the Orion command module. The aft section of the CM would have to be re-engineered to allow for a hatch to be added so that docking with a MPLM is feasable. The docking hatch and equipment to be used would have to be of the same type used on the ISS to connect the modules together.
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Orion's heat shield is behind the CM and behind that is the service module. Orion has two hatches, one at the side for entry when on the pad and one at the top for docking. See Orion topic
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Okay after doing some research here is the design for the Pilyhas -1 the first inter-lunal vehicle that could travel to the moon deliver crew and cargo and then re-turn to the ISS, be broken down into modules for storage and re-assembled for trips back to the moon.
Two problems with relying on the ISS:
1) The ISS has only a handful of docking ports, most Russian, and the Russians have been boasting lately about planning to expand their portion of the ISS - they likely would refuse using any port for the docking of non-Russian hardware. Beyond any of these ports there aren't really any dedicated latches or spots on the truss for 'stowage' that wouldn't interfer with either the radiators or solar panels in some way. :?
2) Very lousy orbit for Lunar travel. It'll cost more fuel launching from the 52 degree inclined orbit that just directly from whatever launch site. The Moon orbits...what, 2 or 3 degrees off our equator? Whatever CEVs flying to the ISS will be optomized for nothing but that.
A reuseable Service Module would be a great idea though, and although I'm against space stations whenever possible a station that actually acts as a stowage yard might not be bad - but still if the SM can orbit on its own let it do so w/o a station to play den mother.
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I would love to travel on the moon one they. I hope they will manage to finish that project. It's a great project.
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Well first off this is a space craft that would be able to perform the various functions of that of the space station but as a space craft. This craft will not be returning to Earth but will either dock at one of the ISS hatches or broken down and stored in various locations until needed again.
The next component would be a mini-MPLM type module that will be used as an inter-connecting module between the MLPM and other modules.
This IMPLM (inter-connecting I) will be docked at the aft hatch of the CM.
The aft CM hatch will have to have the same type of docking arrangment as that of the ISS station hatches that dock the MPLM's together. These modules will help strengthen the overall structure of the entire vessel when used.
The next module to be fitted would be the MLPM itself. These modules could be arranged for whatever purpose the mission needed.
This first module would be the crew quarters, where the jettisonable waste management system's, sleeper units, medical unit along with food storage and communications unit would be located. If so desired a cupola
could be fitted to view the outside.
The next module would be another IMPLM then the electronics module.
This module will contain all of the electronics equipment needed to run teh ship. This module would also be designed to have solar paneling wrapped around the surface of the module to collect the solar energy that would then be converted to useable electric. This bay could also be used for additional science stations and or cargo storage. Like the crew quarters a cupola could be added for outside viewing if so desired.
The next module would a IMPLM.
The next module would be the cargo storage module that would be used exclusively to store cargo being transported to the moon base.
Now come the tricky part. deciding which type of module would be used to store the fuel and what type of engine to use.
Any help in this area would be greatly appreciated.
The reason for this type of vehichle is that it would be less expensive to send the Pilyhas-1 to the moon four or five times a year then it would be to launch an ORION everytime.
This vehicle is modular, meaning it can be assembled to fit the needs of the misison which would save more money in the long run.
Pilyhas-1: Carries four to seven astronaughts to the moon baseand brings
other moon base personal back to the ISS where they would
take a CM ride home.
Pilyhas-2: Would be a cargo carrier-just the CM crew would be aboard
Pilyhas-3: Would be an equipment carrier- Twice the cargo modules as
Pilyhas 2.
Pilyhas-4: Would be a tourist ride. Tourist's could pay to ride around in
space for a few days or journey to moon base.
Ship's 1-2 are needed first, ship 4 can wait until the moon base has been established.
I also need ideas on a vehicle that could launch from the moon dock with
Pilyhas then land back on the moon. This vehicle would deliever replacement crew and ferry cargo back to the ship
Another idea that needs to be worked out is to design the cargo modules to be jettisoned and soft land on the moon. The re-attaching of the fuel and engine modules would be the same as docking with a hatch on the space station.
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A reuseable Service Module would be a great idea though, and although I'm against space stations whenever possible a station that actually acts as a stowage yard might not be bad - but still if the SM can orbit on its own let it do so w/o a station to play den mother.
Well what about placing the ship in high orbit maybe 4 or 5 kilometers away from the station? Perhaps a docked Orion CM could be used to ferry astronaughts to the ship and then remotely return to ISS?
Well if the Russians dont want to help, it would be too bad if the docking clamps would happen to just oh lets say release during their sleep time.
No more problem.
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Here is another advantage to using the MPLM. When the Pilyhas-1 reaches the moon and delivers the cargo laden MPLM, the MPLM would then be used as another add-on module to the moon base. This also solves the need to send a single vehicle to the moon.Functionality and cost over the cost of a single use vehicle.
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Connector method: The aft section hatch of the CM would have the Active APAS installed. The IMPLM fore section hatch would have the Passive APAS installed. The aft section hatch of the IMPLM would have the Active APAS intsalled. This method of connections will follow the same pattern until the last MPLM. The last MPLM will have the aft section hatch desinged to attach to a fuel storage tank. This aft section hatch will not be ale to be used and all operating systems will be removed to avoid any accidental opening.
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I think I may have solved the problem of both the fuel storage and engine package. The fuel storage will be the 280 klb Liquid Oxygen/Liquid Hydrogen tank used in the Ares I CEV.
The engine would be the Saturn J-2 Derived Engine (J-2X)
The fore section of the tank would have the same connecting equipment used in the same manner as used with the MPLM. The only difference would be that the docking mechanism would be built in the fore section of the fuel tank which would be the passive APAS. The best way to design this would be to take the fore section of a IMPLM cut it in half and attached it to the fore of the fuel tank.
The very last module before the fuel tank would have emergency fuel tanks added in case of an emergency and the fuel and engine tank needs to be jettisoned, the ship would still be able to use her thrusters to manuever to the moon base or back to the space station.
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Now for the ship to surface crew vehicle.
The premise for this design would have to be the following:
1. Be able to dock with the for docking mechanism of the CM.
2.Be able to ferry four crew/passengers to the surface of the moon
and back again to the ship.
3.The lander must be also be able to remain as one intact craft, unlike
the old Apollo landers that left the engine and other components behind.
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It never made sense to me leaving the bottom half of the lunar lander behind. If the regolith below is heated to a high temperature it would melt to create a solid surface to land on.
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I would have to agree with you, the more un-usable waste that is left behind the more money is lost when a module could and should be made to be re-usable many times over before being retired.
How this would work is we would take the old ascent and descent modules of the apollo lunar lander and refit them.
The vehicle would be designed based on the old Apollo lunar lander but with some changes. Instead of having an ascent and descent module. The descent module would be made a permanent part of an Orion CM module.
All extraneous equipment on the Orion CM not necessary for the ascent and descent to the surface would be removed.
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I think I may have solved the problem of both the fuel storage and engine package. The fuel storage will be the 280 klb Liquid Oxygen/Liquid Hydrogen tank used in the Ares I CEV
This module has been re-designed. Instead of using the 280 klb tank, a smaller version is needed. The reason is there would need to be such a large tank to send the vehicle to the moon.
The tank size has been lowered to 120 klb tank, with the same engine still being used.
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The design stated above for the lunar lander has been scrapped instead the Altair will instead be used. This vehicle is already designed to work with the fore docking mechanism of the Orion CM.
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Does anyone have the particulars one the Constellation cargo vehicle?
What I need to know is possible to load the tank and engine for the pilyhas-1 into the cargo bay to launch into space?
These last two units would be last in the logistics schedule to be put into space and would imediately be docked with the rest of the ship. Once docked fuel would then be taken to the fuel tank loaded and an intial test firing of the main engine would be conducted.
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Does anyone have the particulars one the Constellation cargo vehicle?
What I need to know is possible to load the tank and engine for the pilyhas-1 into the cargo bay to launch into space?
The Orion pressurized cargo variant was canceled. The service module may contain a small cargo bay for use during ISS missions.
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Well that was dumb to cancel it. Why waste the money on transporting small amounts of cargo when the ISS can provide us with the means to build a viable vehicle out of component parts from the ISS that would save money by being able to transport larger quanities of cargo at once instead of wasting money and sending small amounts of cargo over many trips.
The redesign for the tank module has been changed to the same diameter as that of the MPLM. The length shall be that of being able to hold 120 klg of LH2 fuel along with an approximate volumed LOX tank. The J-2X has been scrapped and replaced with the same engine that is currently being used on the Orion cm/sm.
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Why waste the money on transporting small amounts of cargo when the ISS can provide us with the means to build a viable vehicle out of component parts from the ISS that would save money by being able to transport larger quanities of cargo at once instead of wasting money and sending small amounts of cargo over many trips.
Because Orion is designed to provide safe access to and from LEO for crew, it's primary purpose is for exploration beyond LEO out to lunar orbit and beyond. It's not a cargo vehicle. ISS cargo will be transferred by cheaper spacecraft such as Progress, ATV, HTV and COTS. Heavy cargo for lunar missions will be lifted by Ares V.
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But look at the cost of launching a heavy cargo ship versus using the MPLM. The MPLM once at the moon and the it's cargo delivered would then be added to the continual buidling of the moon base. The MPLM would function in the same manner as it works with the ISS. This type of package is a two for one deal where as the Heavy cargo lifter has wasted components like the engine and navigation systems. I can guarantee this package will save money in the long run which can be used to build other vehicles or add-ons to the ISS.
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The next problem I can foresee is the structual stability between the two docking mechanism's. These points would stress points. When the engine is fired, these points would twist and turn alittle causing shear force to be put upon the mechanism itself. If anyone has a solution to this flaw in the design it would be appreciated.
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This design has been re-worked. I failed to see that the MPLM only has one useable hatch and was rated at for a tour in space of 180 days.
The MPLM has been replaced with the Harmony, Node 3 and the Columbus Science module. The Columbus Science module would need to be re-wroked to allow for fuel storage but would work.
The engine would need to be capable of pulse propelling the ship (turning the engine off and on until the needed velocity was achieved) to the Moon and to Mars. The engine would also need to be able to not create a force on the docking mechanisms of each node or module that would twist the whole ship causing catastraphic failure of the docking mechanisms.
I beleives the ORION module engine the AeroJet AJ10 would be sufficant for this purpose.
This is how the set-up would go
ORION CM = Harmony(node 2)=(connecting adapter) = Harmony(node2)=(connecting adapter) = node 3 =(connecting adapter)= Columbus Science module (the shell only)=(connecting adapter)=Engine suite (AJ10?)
Cupola could be fitted at the any of the twelve hatches on the Harmony and node 3 modules along with modified cargo containers meant to dock at the hatches. The hatches could also be used for modified expieriment, communications, solar array or robotic arm docking. In this type of configuration the ship could be used for many multi-specific tasks.
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