Political Potpourri VIII

BWhite · 2005-07-19 15:36:48

Lets keep 'a going.

BWhite · 2005-07-19 15:43:45

HA! HA! Now they say it won't be Clement.

That Dubya, he's such a funny guy.

http://www.tradesports.com/jsp/intrade/ … rch/#]This link, tradesports.com, offers futures contracts on who will be nominated. Isn't freedom wonderful?

Edited By BWhite on 1121811545

clark · 2005-07-19 16:37:20

I think the horse head could use a few whacks here and there.

BWhite · 2005-07-20 07:30:20

More on Womens]http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/20/international/middleeast/20women.html?hp&ex=1121832000&en=09d840d1e4d06041&ei=5094&partner=homepage]Women's rights in Iraq.

Do we approve? Is this any of our business?

What should we do about it?

= = =

BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 19 - A working draft of Iraq's new constitution would cede a strong role to Islamic law and could sharply curb women's rights, particularly in personal matters like divorce and family inheritance.

Cobra Commander · 2005-07-20 07:42:22

Such is the peril of skipping the "impose order" phase in favor of a rush to "democracy."

Now we either live with it, try to retroactively impose our will with dire consequences, or. . . let civil war happen, let the blame fall among the factions, partition Iraq and intervene to end the conflict like a benevolent superpower at the request of the elected governing bodies of those partitions.

Are we willing to let a few thousand die for politcal expediency in order to secure rights for Iraqi women and at the same time make our task of cultural remolding that much easier?

clark · 2005-07-20 07:44:06

far out concept, let the Iraqi people work it out themselves. they have to live with it.

C M Edwards · 2005-07-20 08:17:05

At this point, a draft of the Iraqi constitution has about as much legal weight as a post in this thread. I am not worried.

However, if they do pass it as is, then I say we live with it. It'd be a shame, but it'd be their country.

PS - Who knows? Such a course might make the restructuring of Iraq even easier. I hear that "compromise" doesn't have an exact translation into Arabic, but this could end up being pretty close.

BWhite · 2005-07-20 08:40:56

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/s … tml]Sunnis withdraw from Iraqi constitution writing process.

clark · 2005-07-20 11:41:16

Hey Bill, why don't you do something about your mayor? Or are you more satisfied with talking about the politcal situation abroad than dealing with the politcal situation in your own backyard?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/20/natio … icago.html?

Top City Officials Arrested in Chicago Hiring Fraud

CHICAGO, July 19 - Two top city officials face charges in what federal prosecutors described as "pervasive fraud" in City Hall hiring and promotions, prompting Mayor Richard M. Daley on Tuesday to promise "fundamental changes" in his administration's personnel processes.

C M Edwards · 2005-07-20 13:17:54

Hey Bill, why don't you do something about your mayor?

Where's the fun in that?

clark · 2005-07-20 13:28:15

That goes along with a general theory: Why do people accept a poorly performing corrupt government?

Because it allows them to focus on something other than themselves and have the perfect scape goat for their personal ills.

Republicans say it does too much. Liberals say it doesn't do enough.

It's all avoidance issues. The talk show circuit is merely a symptom of a larger problem.

reddragon · 2005-07-20 13:44:18

That goes along with a general theory: Why do people accept a poorly performing corrupt government?
Because it allows them to focus on something other than themselves and have the perfect scape goat for their personal ills.
Republicans say it does too much. Liberals say it doesn't do enough.
It's all avoidance issues. The talk show circuit is merely a symptom of a larger problem.

If people are complaining about their government I wouldn't say that they are accepting it. Hopefully they are not just going on the talk show circuit, but are petitioning their senators and representatives and voting for candidates who support their views. Admittedly many aren't doing these things, but when they are, that is citizenship, and it is the way to change what you don't like about the government.

Of course, while you're working on changing the government, you have to put up with the fact that it's still governing you (although civil disobedience can be a successful tactic, complete revolution ins't usually a good choice over issues such as the current problems of the US government). "Men are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable." The government hasn't gotten that bad yet, so we still suffer with it. Hopefully, we also try to improve it.

C M Edwards · 2005-07-20 13:52:03

Why do people accept a poorly performing corrupt government?
Because it allows them to focus on something other than themselves and have the perfect scape goat for their personal ills.

Well, of course! You didn't think that the centuries old tradition of back porch politics represented an actual attempt at reform, did you?

I remember how sad we were down here when they finally caught Fast Eddie, our former governor. The show was over, and his celebrated personal state trooper wasn't even accompanying him to the Oakdale federal correctional facility. Talk about a let down! :cry: ( )

Dragging talk shows into the mix is completely unnecessary, though. Scapegoating politicians is entertaining enough all by itself. Talk shows just imitate the original to get an audience.

clark · 2005-07-20 14:06:37

I recall reading this article that described an old town, I forget where and what culture and what time period. Just one of those weird cultures with weird traditions.

Well, in this city, a person was chosen from among the populace. He was fed, bathed, pampered, and generally treated lavishly. At the end of a year of this treatment, the townspeople either kicked him out of town, or killed him.

The tradition was premised on the idea that the man would take all the ills of the town with him. Thus the “sacrificial lamb”, or scape-goat in our more modern experience.

If I recall, this little anecdote was related to some French politician getting sacked after the French EU vote. The more things change, the more they remain the same.

DonPanic · 2005-07-20 14:32:32

LO

BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 19 - A working draft of Iraq's new constitution would cede a strong role to Islamic law and could sharply curb women's rights, particularly in personal matters like divorce and family inheritance.

So, US citizens paid hundreds billions of dollars, casualties in troops reaching little by little 2000 killed, how many wouded ? in order to remove a dictature, the iraqis had 25000 killed,
and the "democratic" result of it is an "islamic republic" lead by Sharia,
and whe all know how women are "democratically" treated by Sharia.

Just a few questions, mainly to those which supported the war:

- Happy ?

- Do you think that the investment worth it :
in terms of money ?
in terms of blood price ?

- Do you feel your security has been raised by that war ?*

- Do you feel the World is safer than before war at Iraq ?

*answers such as: "yes, went from orange to red" are tricky :shock:

clark · 2005-07-20 16:13:07

Well, to be fair, people are not being gassed as a part of state policy anymore. Some might consider that worth the sacrifice.

I think one thing to bear in mind is that the Western world did not magically become enlightened over night. We all have a shared history of slowly expanding freedoms and choice to more individuals within our societies. France included.

It may not be exactly fair to expect Islamic countries to be as progressive as Western countries right off the bat. I'm sure we all wish it to be otherwise, but they do need to sort it out themselves.

The key though is that if Iraq has a system that can allow for the expression of women's viewpoints, their representation in some manner, then this allows for a natural (if albeit slow) progression to full and equal rights.

Yes, women seemed to enjoy more rights under Saddam. But not to many women enjoyed the rights of Saddam's sons and their rape parties. We could paint this in black and white and simplify the situation, but what does it really prove?

I for one am just confused why a committee charged with writing a Constitution is working on inheritance law and divorce proceedings. Seems like this should be handled the day after.[shrug]

DonPanic · 2005-07-20 17:34:26

LO

Yes, women seemed to enjoy more rights under Saddam. But not to many women enjoyed the rights of Saddam's sons and their rape parties.

Sunni leading classes and sunni bourgeoisie mainly enjoyed the rights.
How many unwanted marriages under Charia "Status of Women" will turn to legal rapes, now ?

http://www.riia.org/index.php?id=189&pid=247]From London

clark · 2005-07-20 17:52:36

How many Kurdish children will get to grow up?

We can focus on the negative aspects of this situation to the exclusion of all else, or we can choose not to forget these issues and also realize the positive outcomes that are the result.

Which side will present a fair perspective? Believe me, as an American, I continually feel the pull of diametric perspectives that focus on just one aspect of the situation. As an individual, I would prefer to see a balanced view that presents both the positive and the negative results.

People were murdered for just being a certain ethnicity. Let's not forget that. Does it justify all that has been done? To some it is enough of a reason. To some, they want to feel more secure that this justification is enough for all that it costs.

There can be no question; people were being butchered as a part of state policy in Iraq, prior to the invasion.

I feel sorry for the Iraqi women if they lose rights they might once have enjoyed. I look forward to the day when they get those rights back, and support efforts to convince Iraqi's that equal rights for their mothers and daughters is ultimately in their own best interest.

But if you ask me if their loss, or even our continuing loss now, somehow diminishes what has been gained for some ordinary people in Iraq, I would have to say that it is still worth the effort.

I of course wish this whole fiasco were executed in a different manner. I of course wish that certain aspects would change now. Yet I still think the price paid has not exceeded the value.

Palomar · 2005-07-21 08:20:21

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050721/ap_ … CUl]London hit by 3 more "blasts"

*Bombers have struck again.

Current indications are there will be less injuries/deaths from these. Hopefully so...but still bad of course. ::shakes head::

--Cindy

srmeaney · 2005-07-21 10:31:22

Actually it was four...Bastards tossed in Nail bombs rather than go for the sucide bomber option.

This is what we get for association with people from Non commonwealth countries. Trash that put religion above life. Probably about time we nuked a few cities...

DonPanic · 2005-07-22 09:41:46

LO

. Probably about time we nuked a few cities...

BRRRRRRRR
That's exactly what bin Laden supporters are thinking about our cities.

C M Edwards · 2005-07-22 09:57:44

Armed undercover police in London shot a suspected suicide bomber to death this morning.

Joy. :x

PS - http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07 … index.html

Mixed news about Thursday's attempted bombings. They were probably meant to be much bigger, but were botched.

srmeaney · 2005-07-22 14:52:09

You can only hope he wasnt just some fellow with a beard...

C M Edwards · 2005-07-22 15:38:26

You can only hope he wasnt just some fellow with a beard...

Such things happen. However, there is no evidence that they hapened in this instance. I think they got their man.

srmeaney · 2005-07-23 03:45:35

Such things happen. However, there is no evidence that they hapened in this instance. I think they got their man.

You would think so, except latest news describes a nasty little tale where this individual was running to catch his train, was spotted by plain clothes officers, pursued to the train, pushed through the door and shot dead in front of commuters...still no evidence that he had a bomb or was a terrorist.

Crime: Running in a public place
Penalty: Death without Trial

So much for that Commonwealth country...

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