New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: This forum is accepting new registrations by emailing newmarsmember * gmail.com become a registered member. Read the Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topic in Meta New Mars for other information for this process.

#1 Re: Meta New Mars » Spammer » 2007-12-12 00:59:17

Spammer: woshion.

first, second. I locked the topics but not yet deleted them.

#2 Re: Not So Free Chat » I am, therefore I shop. » 2007-12-10 04:59:30

But, this green idea isn't the way to go and will only kill billions of people as it end result. There is no such thing as sustainability or using renewable resources to sustain a human society. This green idea is only another way of killing off large numbers of people. Some people know this fact, but most people that are jumping on this band wagon probably don't know this fact.

Why do you believe that sustainabilty is such a bad thing ? Do you have any arguments ? Besides, in Cuba, during the oil embargo, sustainability saved the life of millions. Am I getting something wrong ?

BTW, I think Number04 was reffering to light bulbs, not bubbles...

#3 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Gravtity not present throughout the Universe » 2007-12-03 05:27:56

Since gravity effects light which does not have any mass then gravity has to be an energetic source otherwise the light would be able to escape a blackhole.

Light doesn't escape a black hole not because is "drawn" toward the "gravitational source" by some form of "energy", but because the space itself around a black hole is curved up to the point where it is *closed*. 

If you were a photon in a light beam inside a black hole's horizon of events, you will "believe" that you are actually traveling in straight line (at least in your frame of reference). For an observer outside, you are "travelling in circles" inside the black hole's event horizon.

Picture this: you are a little tiny car, remote controlled, and you have been placed *inside* a big empty sphere, but with solid walls and no openings. No matter how much you drive in a straight line, you'll always remain in the sphere. You can never get out. I hope this is a understandable analogy for the event horizon around a black hole and a light beam inside it. wink

There is no "energy" implied at all in this scenario. Just the spacetime which is closed onto itself.

#4 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Gravtity not present throughout the Universe » 2007-11-27 04:33:15

How does the stripping of an atom of all its protons and  electrons relate to the topic? We know that gravity is energy.

Gravity is energy ?! Since when ?! I thought gravitation is just a "geometric" measure for the spacetime curvature. You can approximate this most of the time by using Newton's theory as a force, but gravitation is much more then just a force/energy.

#6 Re: Terraformation » New ideas for terraforming mars » 2007-11-14 13:55:29

@Tom: http://www-ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/personnel/ … venus_mag/

One of these models has led to the hypothesis that the core of Venus may be completely solid or 'frozen' today, while others propose that core solidification has not yet commenced or has stopped at some time in the past (e.g. Stevenson, Spohn and Schubert, 1983). In all cases, evidence cited in support of these hypotheses always includes the known weakness of the intrinsic magnetic field.


http://www.astronomynotes.com/solarsys/s7.htm

The reasons why Venus does not have a global magnetic field are that it spins very s-l-o-w-l-y (about once every 243 Earth days!) and the absence of convection in the liquid core (probably because of the lack of plate tectonics for the past half billion years).

And this:
http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Earth-- … ntcfld.pdf

#7 Re: Terraformation » New ideas for terraforming mars » 2007-11-14 09:00:02

Look for Dynamo theory, for an explanation of how Earth generates its magnetic field. Unfortunately just making a machine like that doesn't mean you'll get a magnetic field at all. If you stir the tea in a cup with a teaspoon, you won't get any magnetic field.

Earth has a solid iron core (called the Inner Core), engulfed in a sea of melted iron (called the Outer Core). Above that are the mantle and the crust.

Our magnetic field is produced by the currents in the ocean of iron from the Outer Core, because iron conducts electricity and is ferromagnetic. Some of these currents are generated by the rotation of Earth (actually by the difference in Earth's rotation and Core rotation), some by heat from the Inner Core.

But Mars' core is less dense, cooler, and appears to be (almost) entirely solid at this point. Also, it doesn't appear as made entirely from iron, but a mix of sulphates and iron.
So this is the reason Mars doesn't have a magnetic field, and is hard to change that. The first step would be to heat it's core, which is impossible for the next... 1000 years? After that, maybe Mars will get it's own magnetic field without the aid of any machine in orbit.

@Tom: it's not the rotational speed that matters, but the difference in speeds of the core and mantle, their chemical composition and how hot and liquid they are.

#8 Re: Life support systems » Greenhouses » 2007-11-13 07:09:37

Most plants will do just well even at lower light levels. Why ?

First, because a lot of edible plants do not grow normally at Earth's equator, thus they are already adapted to lower light levels.

Also, on Earth we have clouds, thicker atmosphere (which is never 100.00% transparent), and more important: most edible plants on Earth are used to growing in the shadow of bigger plants. Grains for example are a notable exception to this.

And the most important thing to remember: to most plants, if not all, photosynthesis starts at very low light levels. I said some time ago that I have an aquarium with light levels a lot smaller than the natural light, and for most plants I observed only one thing: they grow fine, but just a little slower.

There is an article on the NewMars wiki about greenhouses, written by C.M. Edwards (probably one of the best articles we have), read that too:

http://www.newmars.com/wiki/index.php/Greenhouse

#9 Re: Civilization and Culture » Low or Hi-Tech » 2007-11-07 07:18:34

The forum made a mistake (not me, I'm never to blame.) It placed hi-tech as the question, not an answer. I tried to add it but it wouldn't let me.

I added the option "Hi-Tech".

#11 Re: Civilization and Culture » Low or Hi-Tech » 2007-11-02 01:20:45

I don't see the option Hi-Tech in the poll....

#12 Re: Water on Mars » Where is this ocean gone? » 2007-11-02 01:18:06

There might just be an answer in an article I just read:

[url=http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn12866-vast-amount-of-water-ice-may-lie-on-martian-equator.html]Vast amount of water ice may lie on Martian equator
[/url]


The question is: is it ice or volcanic ash ?

#13 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Major Discovery: Earth-like planet only 20 ly away » 2007-04-27 02:06:22

Now the question is: how quick can we get there ? At least with some probes... :cry:

#14 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Earth Type Planet in Goldie Lock Zone » 2007-04-27 02:00:40

Another thread already started here.

Can you please re-post your link there so I can close this thread ?

#15 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Major Discovery: Earth-like planet only 20 ly away » 2007-04-25 01:12:25

Oh yes ! Finally. Some very good news. tongue

LE: I edited the title to make it more obvious.

#16 Re: Life support systems » What would be the best method of maintaining fertile fields? » 2007-04-14 03:01:38

Well, Mars gets 43% of the absolute solar energy Earth gets, if my calculations are correct.

I have a planted aquarium with only 3 fluorescent lamps, that's around 1/10 or less of what they receive in the wild. But they're doing fine, they grow well, even if a bit slower. Of course, there are plants that need a bit more light and I can't keep those.

The idea is that most plants we cultivate for food today will do just fine with these low light levels. There are exceptions, of course, for example wheat, which needs a lot of sunlight and heat to mature.

#17 Re: Meta New Mars » Bloody broken login! » 2007-04-14 02:44:40

Josh, have you considered switching the entire site to something better, an integrated CMS like Joomla, Mambo or e107 ?

#18 Re: Human missions » Lunar economics etc » 2007-02-18 15:01:16

No, you are all wrong

First, Tritium by itself is completely worthless for making bombs, since Hydrogen (fusion) bombs require an Atomic (fission) bomb to initiate the reaction.

Considering muon-catalysed fusion and powerful lasers that are available today, this may no longer be true. We might not even know it...

#19 Re: Human missions » Lunar economics etc » 2007-02-17 07:26:44

Coal produces ~10kW/kg and cost $50/MT so ~$200/kW.

0.005 $/KW ?

#20 Re: Life support systems » Atmospheric Revitalization for Mars Mission (for the brave?) » 2007-02-12 05:12:46

Uhmm, you are right about this one. My mistake. The OGS developed by Arizona Univ does not work at low pressure. :oops: I think it needs at least 1 atm, better 5 atm.

But, even if the OGS can't be used during flight time, maybe it can be used on Mars, in a open-loop type of life support system, thus reducing mass. Maybe...

@bobwd40, have you read this ?

BTW, the main site for OGS should be here:

http://stl.ame.arizona.edu/mip-ogs/, and another publication here:
http://stl.ame.arizona.edu/publications … o_2000.PDF, but it seems the site is not working right now, at least for me.

Also, some kind of slide show here:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/apio/pdf/ … s_isru.pdf

There are also a lot of papers out there, just waiting to be read.

#21 Re: Life support systems » Atmospheric Revitalization for Mars Mission (for the brave?) » 2007-02-10 14:53:15

If any of you know of any methods (current, experimental or proposed) for removing CO2 that would be more effective in both mass and volume PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!!

Yttria stabilised zirconia cells ?! What else ?

For example, read this

There are also a lot of PDF papers out there. There was even an experiment with such a cell, I believe at Arizona Univ. Very small, but very effective. Also, I think YSZ acts like a catalyst, thus you need a very small amount.

Just search google for something like "ISRU Yttria stabilised zirconia", "Mars Yttria stabilised zirconia" etc.

#22 Re: Meta New Mars » Bloody broken login! » 2007-02-10 14:46:08

This will happen if you go to http://newmars.com/forums rather than http://www.newmars.com/forums

Can't think of a real remedy for it.

Can you set the cookie for the domain newmars.com instead of www.newmars.com ?
In Admin Panel -> General settings -> Cookie domain (or at least this is how I think it's translated into English)...

#23 Re: Meta New Mars » Spammer » 2006-12-03 06:21:17

Well done Josh ! And I like those forum rules smile.
Sorry for my prolonged absence, but I just got married tongue.

BTW, I had a lot of problems lately on another forum from spam bots, all coming from the same IP, but with different hosts.
Domains like:
wpoejgpwjeg3wg.org, dfpijfpwiejf.org, flghewegwopegh.org, ofdjgpwrigp.info....

Every day they register another domain, with emails coming from those, but the same IP. It's overkill. When I banned the IP we had a quiet period for 2-3 weeks, but soon human users started activating accounts and entered the forum from different IPs, but the users were created from the same old IP.

Just wondering if you know this Josh, where can I report those IPs ? I have no clue.

#24 Re: Meta New Mars » Spammer » 2006-11-19 05:56:16

"29 immigrants arrested for visa fraud"

User "hohlovod13".

#25 Re: Meta New Mars » Spammer » 2006-11-13 14:27:01

User ViagraGeneric...
Has done nothing wrong, but his name.... I'm not sure about this one.

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB