Ares I (CLV) - status

GCNRevenger · 2008-03-01 18:34:17

No gaetano, since the five and four segment boosters will use different propellant mixes, enabling the five-segment booster to burn a little longer. The "4+1" test motor used the old propellant and old configuration.

Whoops, your wrong.

gaetanomarano · 2008-03-02 04:02:41

...use different propellant mixes...

the faster burn time is SURE with the increase of the propellent's burning surface, while, the "new mix" should (or should not...) add THRUST and NOT more burning time, so, the SRB-5 thrust could be higher than the +9% of the 4+1 SRB test (but I doubt it will reach the +25% the new SRB needs to compensate its +25% increase of weight) but the burning time MUST/WILL be LOWER

also, that means a lower 1st stage separation altitude and a lower acceleration at this separation, then, the Ares-1, with the SRB-5, absolutely needs (more than past) an SSME-class 2nd stage engine or TWO J-2X (or my "J-2Y" superengine)

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cIclops · 2008-03-02 05:41:37

Calculating burn time will involve a very detailed model of the whole system, the combustion process, dynamic geometry and many other factors that all have to be simulated. It's not as easy as multiplying by a factor of 12/11 (9%) LOL

The latest Ares V design shows burn time of the 5 segment motor at 125.9 seconds.

gaetanomarano · 2008-03-02 07:45:01

The latest Ares V design shows burn time of the 5 segment motor at 125.9 seconds.

the full 5 segments motor has NEVER (really) "burned" (LOL)

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cIclops · 2008-03-02 08:37:10

the full 5 segments motor has NEVER (really) "burned" (LOL).

5 Segment SRB Test at Thiokol - YouTube video 3:27 mins

gaetanomarano · 2008-03-02 09:24:06

5 Segment SRB Test at Thiokol - YouTube video 3:27 mins

sorry, but this is NOT the real 5-segments SRB but only the 4+1 segments test of which I talk here and in the August 12, 2006 update of my July 28, 2006 "Why the 5-segments SRB can't work" article:

http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/011srb5.html

and this is the link to the NASA article reporting the 4+1 segments SRB test:
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/ne … 3-186.html

this 4+1 SRB test was made with standard segments, then, WITHOUT any new propellent grain and/or shape

Terraformer · 2008-03-02 09:30:49

I thought you said you weren't going to use colors for speaking on forums anymore.

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-02 10:01:05

I thought he gave up speaking on the forums when everyone decided to stop listening to his conspiracy theories.

GCNRevenger · 2008-03-02 11:42:26

Oh brother

the faster burn time is SURE with the increase of the propellent's burning surface, while, the "new mix" should... add THRUST and NOT more burning time

The burn rate, and hence burn time, is a function of the surface area and how fast the fuel burns per area. So, you could have two identical boosters, one with a fast and one with a slow burning fuel, and the slow-burning one will burn longer.

This isn't exactly rocket science.

GCNRevenger · 2008-03-02 11:46:17

I thought you said you weren't going to use colors for speaking on forums anymore.

Oh, and is it possible for a mod to change his signature so it doesn't have blank period lines and big red multi-exclamation mark insane-self-aggrandizement?

noosfractal · 2008-03-02 12:21:03

Oh, and is it possible for a mod to change his signature so it doesn't have blank period lines and big red multi-exclamation mark insane-self-aggrandizement?

Only an Admin can mess with profiles.

Perhaps gaetanomarano will do this voluntarily in the interests of international harmony.

If he does, you guys should also cut him a break - not on technical points - but there's this whole "freedom of speech" thing that we try to be kinda generous with, yes?

gaetanomarano · 2008-03-02 13:58:09

I've changed the signature and the post colors... however, I feel that are NOT "colors" the true reason why so many peoples on so many forums post so many (angry) critics "Direct"-ed against me...

gaetanomarano · 2008-03-02 14:11:29

The burn rate, and hence burn time, is a function of the surface area and how fast the fuel burns per area. So, you could have two identical boosters, one with a fast and one with a slow burning fuel, and the slow-burning one will burn longer.

you're right, but the SRB-5 needs a propellents that burns FASTER to add more thrust (as expected) ... if the new shape adds no extra-thrust, there is not any reason to to change the current shape

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cIclops · 2008-03-02 18:58:31

Latest concept image

BIG version

(just for you gaetanomarano, so you can see the real first stage burn ha ha)

JoshNH4H · 2008-03-02 20:20:47

will anyone ever actually get a picture from that angle?

GCNRevenger · 2008-03-02 21:12:08

Nnnnope. Any aircraft or balloon that close would risk impact or incineration.

cIclops · 2008-03-09 05:04:31

From Mr. Steve Bouley presentation Pratt & Whitney (PDF 2MB) - J-2X Engine - 26 Feb 2008

Engine characteristics looking as promised.

cIclops · 2008-03-10 09:26:04

View%20to%20South%203.jpg
Ares I-X Upper Stage simulator construction work area

Time lapse video of fabrication activity - 48 seconds - real metal bending!

Lots more details and drawings

Scheduled for 2009, Ares I–X is planned to be the first test flight of the Ares I vehicle. The test flight objectives are focused on first-stage flight dynamics, controllability, and separation of the first and upper stages. The Ares I–X flight will consist of a functional booster stage and an upper stage mass simulator, which has the same mass as the actual upper stage.

cIclops · 2008-03-13 01:41:04

From Ares Launch Status Update (PDF 2MB) - February 2008

Some Ares I “Myths” Debunked
• The Ares I is underpowered to lift the Orion CEV
–Today, Ares I has ~ 4,400lbm of total performance margin above the requirement for a driving lunar mission
–Constellation maintains an additional 3,000 lbm of margin over Orion!s maximum mass requirement (which also contains margin)
–That's 15% of margin coming into PDR. That's in addition to mass growth allowances on all systems
• The Ares I will violently shake apart during 1st stage fl flight
–Solid-based stages exhibit a phenomenon called thrust oscillation - on Ares I, particularly in the last ~20 sec of 1st stage fflight
–The Ares I is a relatively “quiet” motor (~0.5% variation in pressure) and analysis is ongoing to characterize this environment and effect on the launch stack
–Recent results suggest this is well within our design capabilities to mitigate, if necessary
• The Ares I is too long and thin and will not be controllable
–NASA has spent significant effort analyzing and testing in wind tunnels the fight dynamics of Ares I.
–The vehicle has control margin above the requirements using the heritage TVC and while long/thin, is well within the experience base of previous launch vehicles
• Ares I is behind schedule
–The Ares team has met all of its key milestones over the last 2.5 years (including 4 major acquisitions) and is on track to meet its PDR milestone in August, 2008

gaetanomarano · 2008-03-13 03:46:01

Some Ares I “Myths” Debunked ...with words...

GCNRevenger · 2008-03-13 08:03:44

And where did the myths come from in the first place? With words. Oh, and here I thought you weren't going to use colored text anymore, gaetano.

Seriously though, where did the original myths come from?

Commodore · 2008-03-13 08:22:29

I wonder if they could use that 15% margin to do a direct lunar orbit shot.

Also, will the 2nd stage reach orbital velocities?

Yes, wasted volume drives me nuts.

gaetanomarano · 2008-03-13 09:08:32

And where did the myths come from in the first place? With words. Oh, and here I thought you weren't going to use colored text anymore, gaetano. Seriously though, where did the original myths come from?

the "vibrations" issue is an official NASA claim, the same was the problem of flight stability (from press release) the doubt about the Ares-1 come from (good or bad) evaluations from several places, the Orion overweight was admitted (despite they say that have/will solve it)

at this point, that myths NEED a REAL flight to be debunked

PS - the color was a quote

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gaetanomarano · 2008-03-13 09:10:52

I wonder if they could use that 15% margin to do a direct lunar orbit shot.

the Ares-1 (IF will fly...) could do that only with less than half the payload and more SM propellents for TLI

the (current weight) Orion/SM needs (at least) 20 mT of propellents for a lunar fly-by or over 35 mT to perform the TLI and a LOI+TEI

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gaetanomarano · 2008-03-13 09:20:14

Also, will the 2nd stage reach orbital velocities?

yes (IF works) but an elliptic orbit that needs an SM engine burn to become circular

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#476 2008-03-01 18:34:17

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#477 2008-03-02 04:02:41

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#478 2008-03-02 05:41:37

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#479 2008-03-02 07:45:01

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#480 2008-03-02 08:37:10

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#481 2008-03-02 09:24:06

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#482 2008-03-02 09:30:49

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#483 2008-03-02 10:01:05

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#484 2008-03-02 11:42:26

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#485 2008-03-02 11:46:17

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#486 2008-03-02 12:21:03

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#487 2008-03-02 13:58:09

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#488 2008-03-02 14:11:29

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#489 2008-03-02 18:58:31

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#490 2008-03-02 20:20:47

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#491 2008-03-02 21:12:08

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#492 2008-03-09 05:04:31

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#493 2008-03-10 09:26:04

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#494 2008-03-13 01:41:04

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#495 2008-03-13 03:46:01

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#496 2008-03-13 08:03:44

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#497 2008-03-13 08:22:29

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#498 2008-03-13 09:08:32

Re: Ares I (CLV) - status

#499 2008-03-13 09:10:52

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#500 2008-03-13 09:20:14

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