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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:19 pm 
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sorry, but, the Ares 1-X "matches" only the very modest performance predicted by computer simulations, so, it's ALREADY DEAD

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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:31 pm 
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gaetanomarano wrote:
sorry, but, the Ares 1-X "matches" only the very modest performance predicted by computer simulations, so, it's ALREADY DEAD


Sorry gaetano, but Ares-1 is far from dead as ghostnasa blogs over and over:

Final NASA Spending Bill Includes Protections for Moon Program

Posting more about that link under the Constellation thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:44 pm 
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RedStreak wrote:
gaetanomarano wrote:
sorry, but, the Ares 1-X "matches" only the very modest performance predicted by computer simulations, so, it's ALREADY DEAD


Sorry gaetano, but Ares-1 is far from dead as ghostnasa blogs over and over:

Final NASA Spending Bill Includes Protections for Moon Program

Posting more about that link under the Constellation thread.


as explained in my comments in the Aviation Week article (and in full details in my latest ghostNASA article and updates) the Ares-1 is DEAD not only due to a lack of funds (one or two more billion$ are just a DROP in the $35 billion "ocean" needed to develop the Ares-1) but since the 1-x test has clearly shown that a rocket made with an SRB as 1st stage, is VERY WEAK

the fact that NASA receive and BURNS several billion$ for dead-end projects isn't nothing new... just remember the X-33 or the X-38...

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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:10 am 
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The key point of the Ares I flight test was the less than expected levels of vibration in order to keep on schedule. The contractors now know the specific requirements about what Nasa needs them to build. So lets get it done under cost and in less time is all that I ask of them.

President Obama has no reason to make any changes to Nasa's current path. If private industry wants to make a rocket that Nasa could use then let them do so and Nasa will judge it by its preformance to cost or it is no sale....

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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:40 am 
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http://techtv.mit.edu/collections/aeroastro/videos/4840-the-future-of-human-spaceflight-the-augustine-report-and-its-implications

see here an mit presentation with augustine and the others...

from the speeches I saw that Ares I has no reason to exist because as Augustine said
When it is built and orion to go to iss,Iss wil be in Pacific ocean :lol: :lol: :lol:
All advisors of Obama ahs this opinion almost for Ares I...I dont think it will survive..


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 Post subject: Ares I (CLV) - tmp
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:41 pm 
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the augustine commission clearly put as the best option ,to stop Ares I construction ,and build the Ares V Lite(5 Rs-68a engines, 5seg boosters) as soon as possible for dual launch manned and simple ..
I hope Obama to listen to them 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:33 am 
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Aggelos wrote:
the augustine commission clearly put as the best option ,to stop Ares I construction ,and build the Ares V Lite(5 Rs-68a engines, 5seg boosters) as soon as possible for dual launch manned and simple ..
I hope Obama to listen to them 8)

Ares V "lite" is a bad idea for crew lift because:

1. It has six cryogenic liquid engines and two solid motors ... with many more failure modes than Ares I

3. Its far greater complexity means less reliability

2. Its lift capacity and corresponding cost are overkill for a crew launcher

Horses for courses.

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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:05 pm 
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Quote:
2. Its lift capacity and corresponding cost are overkill for a crew launcher

its not for leo taxi..Dragon will do that
is for deep space and moon..
thats the plan of the commission..

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2010/01/french.html
look this..a french study for orion on Ariane 5 :?


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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:21 pm 
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http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2010/01/ares-i-is-not-dead-its-just-a.html

Quote:

Ares I is not dead, it's just a test flight zombie :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:
By
Rob Coppinger
on January 13, 2010 2:59 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) | TrackBacks (0)
|ShareThis

Florida Today's interview with the state's Senator Bill Nelson and other politicians seems to have uncovered the core of what the new US human spaceflight vision will likely be

It sounds a bit like the Review of US human space flight plans' option 4A but there are some pretty odd aspects to it. An extra billion dollars is not going to buy you much for starters

And that extra billion is not even news. In the updated (so it says) FY2010 budget request there is an extra billion for Ares I crew launch vehicle in the FY2011 column and then that slumps back by a billion for FY2012

For the less constrained budget option the Review's report spoke of an extra $3 billion in real terms by 2014. One billion extra dollars from October 2010 will have to be followed by increases well above a billion in each of the next two fiscal years to match that original Review report real term increase estimate

:D


http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/01/13/an-outline-of-the-new-space-policy/

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/progress_centaur.html
Quote:
US and Russian space contractors mulled the possibility of joint cargo missions to the lunar orbit, which could support manned expeditions to the Moon.

According to the annual report of RKK Energia, Russia’s leading developer of manned spacecraft, during 2008 the company studied the possibility of launching its workhorse Progress cargo ship into the lunar orbit. The project was conducted under a contract with a leading American aerospace company Lockheed Martin and evaluated the US-built Centaur upper stage as a carrier of the Russian cargo vehicle into the lunar orbit. Despite its long history in the US space program, Lockheed Martin, which builds Centaur, did not win major contracts in NASA’s Constellation program and the company was seeking to widen its role in the lunar landing effort.


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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:45 pm 
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I've never understood how could anyone consider cancelling a project which

a) is vital for the future;
b) has already been under way for years;
c) has already been given billions of dollars;
d) has no realistic alternative to it.

Sadly, this seems to be happening all the time in the area of space policy...


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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:46 pm 
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Any system using solid propellant rockets always has single-point catastrophic failure modes associated with those rockets, precisely because you cannot turn them off. The hybrid was supposed to address that, in a design simpler than standard liquids, and intermediate in performance between solids and liquids. Although, theoretically, LOX-rubber looks just about as good as LOX-hydrocarbon. NASA was never big on hybrids, although some others are, notably Rutan. I think that was kinda stupid of NASA, and smart on Rutan's part. Nice abortable, restartable, throttleable rocket motor.

Man-rating has less to do with probabilities of failure, and more to do with redundancies and escape modes, by NASA's own standards. The Shuttle failed on both counts, and the part-solid Ares designs retain the same basic SRB as the Shuttle, that proved so unrecoverable with Challenger back in Jan 86. However, at least the heat shield vulnerability that killed Columbia has been alleviated by eliminating the side-cluster geometry and the fragile ceramic tiles / carbon-carbon LE pieces. (They didn't really need to eliminate both of those features in the Ares designs, it was having both features together in the Shuttle design that caused the single-point failure path. The long "stick" configuration in Ares-1 is causing serious problems of its own.)

People keep claiming that the commercial launchers will be less safe than Ares/Orion, but I am very unconvinced that their assertion is true. About the safest thing you can build is a capsule atop a liquid or hybrid booster, with an escape tower or its equivalent. I dunno much about the Orbital Sciences design, but what Spacex wants to man-rate in its Falcon-9/Dragon is exactly what I just described as the "safest approach possible". Such a design with liquids is just inherently safer than anything with solids. It is always possible to fall short in your design, but the basic approach must have that potential, or it can never really be "safe" in practice.

Besides, that triple-O-ring joint NASA went to after Challenger, on the basic SRB they are upgrading for Ares, was exactly the wrong thing to do on a solid motor. Thiokol knew that, but NASA insisted, in its great "experiential wisdom" with solids, and NASA held the checkbook. Remember, the real "smarts" lies not in the government, but in the contractors! That's why they hire contractors, precisely because they cannot do it for themselves in the labs.

3 O-rings are worse than 2, in turn worse than 1. In terms of verification leak-check in a motor environment that is filthy with very hot aerosol solids, the one-O-ring joint is by far the most reliable. What is the point of "redundancy" if it lowers the overall probability of success? How else do you think we built missile motors with 40+ year shelf lives, good from -65F to 145 F soakouts, and proof against quite a bit of mechanical abuse without any field verification of integrity? We understood the risks and how to address them, our customer (the government labs) did not. (They never built a successful production article. Not one. We built 10's-100's of 1000's of them at a time.)

Don't get me wrong: men can fly quite safely with solid rockets. What you have to do is deliberately design around the failure modes and make them survivable. In part, that's why I put podded ramjet nacelles out on wings in my airbreather-assisted stage rocket study. An integral booster failure there might cause loss of the engine pod from the wing, but not so much the wing itself, if you allow for it in your original design. (And that, in part, is why I kept yammering about 40% structural fractions.) That way, the stage is still functional, even if a solid booster malfunctions.

GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas


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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:31 am 
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Quote:
I've never understood how could anyone consider cancelling a project which

a) is vital for the future;
b) has already been under way for years;
c) has already been given billions of dollars;
d) has no realistic alternative to it.


is first stage ready,second stage? :roll: :wink:
what is ready ?the Ares I-x was a joke..
a simple 4 seg srb,with the flight program of atlas and a fake upper stage..


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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:12 am 
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http://nasawatch.com/archives/2010/01/mike-griffins-e.html

Ares I is deeeeeeeeaaaaddd 8) 8) 8) :D :D :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Aggelos wrote:
Quote:
is first stage ready,second stage? :roll: :wink:
what is ready ?the Ares I-x was a joke..
a simple 4 seg srb,with the flight program of atlas and a fake upper stage..

Of course Ares I is not ready, and neither are any alternatives.

I-X was the first prototype test flight, it was very successful. DM-1 was the first test of the 5 segment SRB, it was also very successful.
Ares I is in the middle of development, IOC is planned for 2015.

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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:53 am 
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cancellation would cost assets from the numerous contracts that have already been paid such as....

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1001/28arestower/

Ares 1 mobile launch tower

Hensel Phelps of Orlando, Fla., is overseeing the construction of the mobile launcher. The contract is valued at nearly $264 million, if NASA exercises an option for a second platform and tower.

The total cost of the mobile launcher project is estimated at around $500 million, according to NASA.

Anoth item almost complete for use is the A-3 Test Stand will provide simulated high-altitude testing of the J-2X rocket engine in development.

I think once I have more info that I will repost this as the start of a nre thread....

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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:19 am 
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gaetanomarano wrote:
.

Ares I (CLV) - status ... thread closed, I suppose...

.

I'm still working on the Ares I project everyday and will be until at least October 1st. The fat lady hasn't started singing yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:23 am 
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Beauacadian wrote:
I'm still working on the Ares I project everyday and will be until at least October 1st. The fat lady hasn't started singing yet.

Thank you, Beauacadian.


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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:05 am 
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To what end is the completion of work striving for...is there another more real launch in the cards at that time.....

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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:03 am 
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Off topic posts moved here

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 Post subject: Re: Ares I (CLV) - status
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:04 am 
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Thanks and that is good to hear as maybe you will be able to keep working with less uneasiness about keeping a job.....I wish you the best...

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