New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: This forum is accepting new registrations by emailing newmarsmember * gmail.com become a registered member. Read the Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topic in Meta New Mars for other information for this process.

#1 Re: Unmanned probes » Great panorama of Mars » 2013-04-13 03:50:02

hjs

Sorry, i missed the right word:

The solar eclipse seen from Mars will not happen in conjunction with Sun, but "someday" in opposition to the Sun, as we will see Mars then from Earth..

#2 Re: Unmanned probes » Great panorama of Mars » 2013-04-12 09:58:22

hjs

Hi everybody! By fortune I used the Mars24 app just now, and the data shown were amazing: As seen from Mars the position (azimuth / elevation) of Earth and Sun are nearly identical from sunrise to zenith and sunset.

Is there a solar eclipse today seen from Mars with Earth taking the part of the moon??

Hope there will be someone to tell the camera to look at.

hjs

#3 Re: Unmanned probes » Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT » 2012-09-27 08:51:38

hjs

Hi Vincent!
In the context to that Viking Lander Skyview it tells, that the colours were "naturalized" by taking black-white highresolution pictures and  the colour-channels input to produce colours as they would be seen by human eyes.
How does this great afternoon shot from MSL Mastcam show more blue than green?
The sunny side shows somewhat clean white, result of saturation?
Thanks for the link
hjs

#4 Re: Unmanned probes » Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT » 2012-09-22 09:42:40

hjs

Hi Vincent
Could you comment on the wind (?) pattern in this marvelious picture from orbit?
I am most interested in the daily cycle of the wind arousing around Mt. Sharp.
In the daily weather report from the CAB people there is only 1 figure on wind direction and speed, E 2m/s.
In their weatherlog is some hint they lost one of the windsensors and try to compensate that.
thanks hjs

#5 Re: Planetary transportation » Dirigibles on Mars - A practical means of transport? » 2012-02-22 04:06:33

hjs

as I read it,
the thether is more to keep the load low, just to supply the camera up with power and communication, thus reducing the size of the balloon to lift that weight, but plus load of the thether. Still that size will be in the range of 10m diameter, which makes it difficult to launch it without to shelter the skin against edies. That "high camera" conzept will give valuable sights over walls or cliffs, where the rover arm can not reach further out than some meters, and the rover driver dare to move closer or higher up to the edge.

The balloon will be an "use when needed" instrument, like the drill, that is carried all the time, but in action only when the soil is promissing.

What is the status of the awarded SMBL (by AURORA corp.)? Is there somebody in this forum to know it?

#6 Re: Planetary transportation » Dirigibles on Mars - A practical means of transport? » 2012-02-20 04:55:19

hjs

hi,
many years are gone since this topic was posted.

What happens to the then ongoing pojects:

- Mars Micro Balloon Probe (R.Zubrin et al. 1999)
- Shielded Marsballoon Launcher (Aurora 2009)
- Delft2Mars (Delft University 2010)

Ballooning is essential to learn about the spurious gases in the atmosphere of Mars, and to reach targets not accessible by rovers over sandy fields.

#7 Re: Planetary transportation » Drilling on Mars » 2012-02-06 04:09:36

hjs

The EXOMARS Rover (2014) has tools for drilling down 2m, forming a core, crush it and analyze for the buried targets. They say, it is deep enough because of the layers put over in the last 3.5 GYears over those material will keep it unaffected by surface processes (radiation).
The ground penetrating radar will help in selecting the right spot, just a pinpoint in the skin of the planet.

Going deeper to 10m it will be difficult to stabilize the hole.

#8 Re: Unmanned probes » Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT » 2012-02-01 05:06:24

hjs

Hi!
Are we ready to find iced water 1m below the surface in the Gale sediments in the 10km circle around the landing spot?
Only this would give us the "bucks" for further explorations, unmanned or by crew.
It is not enough to manifest hints of aequatious environments in historic Mars.
We will need water there, with or without life indicators.
How is Curiosity instrumented to look for the best point to drill?

#9 Re: Planetary transportation » Drilling on Mars » 2011-12-31 10:55:08

hjs

Well,
drilling is needed to reach deeper layers of the sediments to look into the history of the planet, but to harvest the obviously existing sources of water for in situ use, it is only necessary to scratch the overlaying sands off the permafrost sites to reach the water ice.(like the PHOENIX tools) Put a bubble or dome over the  site, get the air inside warmed up by the sun, and bring the air like a waterhose at high temperature in close contact at the regolith/water mix. Then crack the upcoming gases of CO2 and H2O in the bubble by controlling the cooling, and separate water and Co2. Such a rack could be moved by a trekking vehicle.

Just an idea, not very much founded by my limited knowledge of any of these technologies.

Could that be made working??

#10 Re: Planetary transportation » Drilling on Mars » 2011-12-16 10:45:40

hjs

how is drilling to be done by the MSL?

#11 Re: Planetary transportation » Trains on Mars - Could a rail system provide martian need » 2008-01-14 05:29:29

hjs

Yes, this sounds very feasible. Does each gondola have an electric motor that draws electricity from the line? How much energy does this take?

Make your choice: come with your buggy, rover or Marssuite only, hook on the rope rails (single or double line) and move on the rope powered by yourself. Or use a cabin with all comfort waiting at the terminal, push the button an go, battery powered or by electric feed cable running parallel.

Energy needed depends on the landscape profil, unless you build very straight connections with high towers. In the plains only resistance from rolling gear is to overcome. Start from a higher point at the terminal , let it run down the hanging rope and up again to the next terminal or pylon.  Use the windforce with a sail, the weight from a counterbalanced cabin coming down on a round running rope etc.

So have the robots drag the heavy steel suspension cables out along the route and then hoist them into place?

Yes, the coming CNT (carbon nano tubes) wires will by far not be as heavy as steel. (japanese patent is pending already!!!)

How would the terminals be built? Steel Frames?

The terminals can be built as simple poles or tripods, ankered with ballast from the grounds there. Or made of sticks and plates out of iron, alloy or Silumin. Production of those materials is very energy consuming. Though every construction/building should be made of multi reusable parts.

#12 Re: Planetary transportation » Trains on Mars - Could a rail system provide martian need » 2008-01-13 04:28:44

hjs

An Aerial Ropeway is the connection by ropes (wires, cables etc) between   
at least two terminals (to load and unload). The cars can be fixed or temporary coupled and be moved either by the running rope, or by the motorized car itself. There are many different solutions. 
 
Thethered High Altitude Platforms up to 20 km and more have been studied and found feasible. Thether samples were built and tested to 100.000 lbf breakstrength. The mentioned Carbon Nano Tube rope technology is today still experimental (max. length 20 cm!).
   
Yes, the whole system can be operated by solar power, because of its low energy needs to move the cars on the rope mainly in the flat plains. The towers at the terminals will be constructed to hold big parabolic mirrors to concentrate solar radiation onto sterling engines (generators). 

In the long range exploration on Mars the power will be supplied by big generators, landed sometime before the first crew will arrive. For safety reasons the landing sites will be miles distant. Though you need some robots to connect the (heavy) power cables to the habitat.
These robots can be instructed to install the aerial ropeways. Actually the power cables put between supporting pylons could be used as an Aerial ropeway. 

The important point of aerial ropeways is they are movable without loss of material. In mountain areas they are temporalily installed for taking out the cut trees (logs).

#13 Re: Planetary transportation » Trains on Mars - Could a rail system provide martian need » 2008-01-10 10:47:37

hjs

That's what we want to see on Mars: one line from Base 1 to Mine 1 then the increase in capital, efficiency, raw materials can be used to build a line to Mine/Base 2 (along with lots of other things).

You mentioned elevated trains or raised roadbeds, but did you ever talk about aerial ropeways?

They are oeconomic to transport to mars (low mass, low volume); easy to move where needed (terminals, ropes, and gondolas); and can be set up even over demanding grounds like glaciers and rocky fields.

The  ropes would be made of carbon nano tubes enforced polymers, so the distance between terminals could easily be 10 km. The gondolas could be even thethered airships. The solar energy collectors would be installed at the terminals.  The robot technology you will need for the installation of grids between the landing sites (cargo and crew) and the big power plants can be used to build the aerial ropeways.

#14 Re: New Mars Articles » Make your own Mars time clock - Mars Timekeeper » 2004-04-01 02:38:29

hjs

Good idea to adjust the length of the pendulum of any clock even without a cookoo as for a timekeeper on Mars. Just to clarify: the sidereal day on Mars is ca. 37 minutes longer, but the "Sol" day is 39 minutes and 35 seconds longer than the 24 hours day shown on your Earth clock.
I calculated the length of the pendulum of the "Martian" cookoo clock equal 26.1537 centimeters, compared to the length of the pendulum of the regular Earth clock being 24.737 centimeters.
If you take your pendulum clock to Mars and measure the time shown, then you may calculate the minor gravity force on your feet with that pendulum.

#15 Re: Human missions » What does it take to be a good Martian? - Human traits best suited for Martians » 2004-01-14 06:14:50

hjs

If people are sent to Mars to stay long term, i.e. colonize it, what human traits are best?


Anyway, I disagree with this statement. First of all, if you get a hundred people who are all rowdy, agressive, and self-leading you run into some major problems with personality. No one wants to take orders from anyone, and everyone just fights over who gets to lead. Trust me, I'm doing a science project right now with three other people who all want to be the group leader, it's not a pretty picture.

Secondly, a PhD is actually a pretty good asset either on Earth or Mars. I've heard some people saying things like it's only a glorified essay or that it doesn't mean anything, but I don't believe this to be true. A PhD shows that you've worked most of your body parts off for it and you are now among the top ten thousand people on Earth/Mars in that area. Running a Mars colony will require creativity and resourcefullness, not brute force.

So, here's my list:

1) Resourcefullness. The Mars colony will require some serious handling of resources to stay operational.
2) Intellegance. As I said above, brains over brawn are needed.
3) Creativity. No one should just be happy with the status quo. If one improvent brings, say, a 5% scrubber efficency that's huge.
4) Adaptibility. The colony will be doing everything physically possible to kill itself and everyone in it. Meanwhile the colonists will have to do everything humanly possible just to keep up. I anticipate that may McGyvered components will run the base pretty quickly.
5) Perserverance. I can not stress this enough. Everything will seem like an insurmountable obstacle, we need people who can handle this.
6) Ability to handle stess. It will be very HARD to run the base. Colonists need to know how to deal with this.
7) Good genes. It would be nice to get off to a good start. No people at heavy risk of disease, but light risk would be tolerable.
8) Adventureness. If colonists can see running the base as an adventure, hey, that's nice.
9) Ability to tolerate people, but be hard when necessary. Name of this trait says it all.
10) Mentally stable. We don't want anyone cracking up under the thought that one can never leave the dome without a space suit now, do we?

Come to think of it, are these traits really important. Except for #7, the second generation will not have been screened for any of these traits. It's just luck of the draw from there on out. My pick for an example of people is Shackleton's 1914 expedition. They had to live off of Antarctica for two years before going 700 miles in a lifeboat for rescue. That track record says it all.  cool

Yes, the Shackleton team members were all survivers!
Their main goals were, we go to the Antarctica, we need assistance by the other crew, and we all want to come home.
And they did it, because of the leadership of Shackleton.
First you have to get the leader, then he will select his fellows.
Let us talk about this subject:
Who and what type will be the leader?
1) Commander
2) Captain
3) Coach
4) Scout
5) Big Boss
6) NASA Official
7) The President
to be continued
hjs cool

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB