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#1 Re: Not So Free Chat » The American Caesar » 2008-05-28 22:33:56

I find your posts alarming and funny at the same time. Your uninformed and extremely crazy views that has no foundation on reality never ceases to amaze me. But you have to be careful. Obama is being guarded by a lot of white SS officers. They might break your door in and arrest you.

first,  would like to ask if you really hate the American Democratic Party and Barack Obama that much, there seemed to be references to both of them there.

America has to fall some day, nothing lasts forever.  Ethnocentrism, the belief that your country is better than everyone else's, is usually a clear indicator that your country is heading towards history's laundry basket. 

The American Republican Party seems to preach this continuously.

He thinks the democratic party are unpatriotic.


Why can't we just put John McCain in?

Because uhm lets seee..... uhm. Oh yeah. He's exactly like Bush.


If you think Tom was refering to Barack Osama - I mean, Obama - then your accepting what Toms saying about him is true.

In a party game I once participated. Players imitate certain people so that their friend could guess who the player was talking about. My partner imitated a guy who was speaking highly of his leader. I guessed Hitler does that make me a Nazi? Black Nazi maybe? That would be disturbingly cool and funny.

#2 Re: Not So Free Chat » Did Iran become a player in space ? » 2008-05-28 22:26:59

Why should it accept an islamic majority of citizens anymore than we should accept a hispanic majority of illegal aliens from Mexico?

Mexicans are from Mexico.

The problem is you can have either an islamic country or a democracy, not both. Muslims have a bad habit of imposing their will, religion, and customs on all minorities, they give muslims special status, special rights that others don't have, and woe to the fellow that insults Islam, or tries to convert a Muslim to a different religion, because the barbaric practise of head-chopping, stoning, or whiplashing may be employed to punish those transgressors.

Where did you get that from? I need hardcore facts not opinions.

I think people in a more liberal Israel

Liberal Israel? Is that an another joke of yours?


may have some qualms about letting in hordes of Muslims

You don't even hide your hatred for muslims. So now we know you hate Arabs and Muslims. Is there anybody else you hate that you would like to tell us now?


who will vote to change laws with their majority status and trample on many of their hard won freedoms of free speech, freedom of the Press, freedom of religion, seperation of church and state, and equality between men and women under the law.

Muslims tend to be very pious, and their religion tells them that the supream law is derived from the will of Allah and the Koran and that anyone who opposes them is an infidel.

First of all. If you believe in a religion where Gods word isn't the ultimate. I think it's a big sign that you need to stop believing in that faith.

I think its perfectly understandable that Israelis wouldn't want hordes of Muslims migrating to or "returning" to their country. One of the reasons they talk about ceding the West Bank and Gaza is so there will be places to put all the aggreived Muslims so they can live in their seperate societies that won't interfere with the democracy of Israel. So far though all Muslims know how to do is take, and there is no give in them. Israel may eventually grow tied of being missiled from Gaza and may simply choose to expel the entire population there when they feel they've had enough. Wouldn't you after all? Even Europe has found it Muslim populations difficult to live with, how can they expect Israel to do something they would not?

Seriously dude. You really need to stop with your crazy ideas. Israel can never and will never "expell" (a nice word for ethnic cleansing) Palestinians. In fact during 1948 their biggest tactic was to scare Arabs away. They didn't force the Arabs they just made them think that they will be killed or raped. Also the reason why Israel doesn't want Palestinians in Israel is because it wants Israel to be a Jewish country. They don't want to live in a Jewish-Arab country, They want a Jewish country where the Jews are the ones with political and economical power.

I think we can have a positive influence on Iran, just like we are now having a positive influence on Iraq and Afghanistan.

American influence in Iran died when USA and the UK got rid of a democratically elected government and put in a mass murdering dictator.  Try explaining that to the people you want on your side in that country.


I think Iran has a very dangerous government, I'd hate to have to subdue Iran after it has aquired nuclear weapons and has attacked us with them! I don't want to have a Cold War and 75 years of b**s**t with them either. What I really find discouraging after the end of the Cold War is the return of the "Reality Bubbles" that many leftwing types have constructed around their heads. For a time after the collapse of the Soviet Union, they were forced to confront reality, after their "Planet Soviet" had collapsed and their "reality bubbles" had popped. After all those Soviet plots were reveals and Soviet villany unearthed, many left wing professors struggled with the situation and on how to proceed from there. Later on they got MoveOn.org and they managed to weave their own tale of American villany and their favorite Antichrist George W. Bush, who must be "evil" because they say so. The leftwing media has waisted no time in putting the "White Hat" on Iran and the "Black Hat" on the United States.

Oh god no. You sir are a nut full stop. You need to go to a library and read some books that haven't been written by right wing nutters. Unless your to busy playing the banjo bubba.

I would have hoped that after 40 years of living under the threat of mutually assured destruction, the world would go to great lengths to avoid sliding back into that situation.

It doesn't help when USA,The UK and France are interfering with other countries that ALWAYS leads to deaths of innocent civilians.  The worst thing about it is that the vast majority of civilians in the named countries are ignorant. There are people like Tom who put their head in the sand and believe that their government is pure has snow  and there are others who just can't be bothered to check up whats going in the world because their lives are to busy.

#3 Re: Not So Free Chat » Did Iran become a player in space ? » 2008-05-26 17:59:23

I can't believe your comparing the taxes the rich pay to the analogy of making Massachusetts. The reason why the rich get taxed more then the poor is because they can afford it. If a  guy gives the government $50k a year when he earns $150k. It's not going to hurt him. He can live with that. Taking $3k from someone who earns $10k is going to condemn them to a life of poverty.

The tax system in modern European style nations who aren't into heavily into socialism is based on taxing people on what they can afford without hurting their banks. In the UK in the 70s the government went crazy with taxes and a lot of rich people left. So far thats not happening in the UK. Your making rich people look like victims when they clearly aren't.

Oh and poor people DO pay taxes. They just pay less taxes in numerical and percentages.

#4 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-26 12:28:45

I was watching it live on NASA TV since the coverage here in the UK is so awful. Unfortunately my internet frazzled couple of minutes before Phoenix was about to enter Space. Nice to see it was successful though.

#5 Re: Not So Free Chat » Perspective » 2008-05-25 19:27:57

All right then. The best way to get 1 trillion is to probably tax people. SHOCK! HORROR! Thats probably going to upset you guys but it's true,

Adding the population of EU,USA,Canada,New Zealand and Australia. You can get $1 Trillion in a year if you tax people an extra 1200 a year. That would be easy in the EU,New Zealand and Australia where the dollar is weak. This would obviously make people protest.  How ever if you decrease it to 117 dollars which is easily manageable. Especially if the burden is increase on the middle class and upper class while lessing it for the poor ones. This would get $1 Trillion in a decade.

That's the only way to get $1 Trillion in a short time. Donations never work at getting huge results. Especially from the public. When ever there is a disaster in a third world country. The UN has to beg for money and even when they do get millions pledged. Some of it never arrives.

Edit: Scratch that.

I was wrong. There is an another way of getting 1 trillion. It doesn't even need the world. America can do it by itself. The American military budget is 583 billion. The nation that comes closet to matching it is France with 78 billion. WTF? The European Union spends 311 billion. That's 27 countries.  America has taken willingly and sometimes unwillingly the role of the Goliath. It's the nation who's spending billions fighting drugs and terrorism around the world. But 583 billion is just to much. If the military budget was reduced by 500 billion and a fire sale of military equipment that are useless to keep was sold to European nations (note only Europeans). $1 Trillion would be freed up. The Iraq war debt which will reach $3 Trillion in the future can be paid of very easily with this.

#6 Re: Not So Free Chat » Did Iran become a player in space ? » 2008-05-25 19:09:32

I can't believe I'm saying this, but....

Democracy isn't always the best form of government, not if it means dictatorship of the majority.

For instance: What if America decided to vote that 1 state, say  Massacusates, should from now on bear the main federal taxes? I'm sure the majority of people would be fine with that. Does that make it right? Not in the least.

That would be a true democracy. A state where the people decide on the issues. What we have in the world today is a semi democracy. The people get to elect representatives who will decide for them. Someone who is more far sighted then the public. The people would want taxes to either be abolished or taken down to a low level. They would want special treatments. If someone was arrested in a foreign country. The people might get angry and wish to "nuke" that country/region. A good example is Tom. Who hates Arabs and wants to ethnically cleanse them from certain areas.  Now the people in charge who can make that decisions will know that it would be very stupid to do that.

To me democracy isn't the best form of government. Any kind of government that will put the will of the people ahead is good. Be it dictatorships or democracies. The problem is that in dictatorships the government doesn't have to listen to the people which is why democracy is better then it.

China is nation to be looking at. Ever since the Tianamen Square crackdown they have been moving into less a repressive and secretive style. They are trying to stay in power by making the lives of their people netter so they won't agitated about their lack of democracy. All though they still have a very very long way to go. It's par of their harmonious society plan.

#7 Re: Not So Free Chat » Did Iran become a player in space ? » 2008-05-25 18:36:54

Let me do a Wikipedia.

Calling it anything less is pretty disrespecful to millions of Palestinians who have suffered at the hands of the Israeli regime. [citation needed]

It's actually citation needed. Let me fix that for you.

Anyway let me see

1: Taking Palestinian land in the West bank under the guise of a security wall? Check. 

The barrier generally runs along or near the 1949 Jordanian-Israeli armistice/Green Line, but diverges in many places to include on the Israeli side several of the highly populated areas of Jewish settlements in the West Bank such as East Jerusalem, Ariel, Gush Etzion, Emmanuel, Karnei Shomron, Givat Ze'ev, Oranit, and Maale Adumim.[20] Because of the complex path it follows, most of the barrier is actually set in the West Bank.[2] It diverges from the "Green Line" by anywhere from 200 meters to as much as 20 kilometers, with the result that many Israeli settlements in the West Bank remain on the Israeli side of the barrier, and some Palestinian towns are nearly encircled by it. Approximately 20% is actually on the Green Line

http://tinyurl.com/55duhz

2: Restricting Palestinian activities? Check.


Israel enforces severe restrictions on Palestinians’ freedom of movement in the West Bank, using a system of permanent and temporary checkpoints, which are staffed, and physical obstructions, which are unmanned. ..... although most are actually located several kilometers from the Green Line. ... At some checkpoints, Israel occasionally prevents men of a certain age group, usually 16-35, from crossing. This restriction is especially common at the checkpoints in Nablus District.

http://tinyurl.com/63nemk

3: Favouring Israeli Settlers at the expense of the Palestinians trying to live a normal life? Check.

This system of restrictions enables Israel to designate some of the roads in the West Bank for primary or exclusive use by Israelis, mainly settlers living in the West Bank. Israel prohibits Palestinian vehicles from even crossing certain roads. As a result of this prohibition, Palestinian traffic is restricted to those roads that remain open to use. Upon reaching a prohibited road, Palestinian drivers and passengers have to leave their vehicles by the side of the road, cross it by foot, and then find alternate transportation on the other side. Palestinians are forbidden to use, or are restricted in their use of, more than 300 kilometers of roads in the West Bank; Israelis are free to use these roads with no restriction whatsoever. ..... One of the main purposes of the policy to restrict Palestinian movement is to protect Israeli settlers. Given that the settlements are illegal, the policy only aggravates the situation: it comprehensively and disproportionately impedes the freedom of movement of an entire population in order to perpetuate an illegal enterprise.

http://tinyurl.com/63nemk

4: Splitting Palestinian land into different enclaves? Check.

The restrictions on movement that Israel has imposed on Palestinians in the West Bank have split the area into six geographical areas: North, Center, South, the Jordan Valley and northern Dead Sea, the enclaves resulting from the Separation Barrier, and East Jerusalem. .... In addition to the restrictions on movement from area to area, Israel also severely restricts movement within each area by splitting them up into subsections, and by controlling and limiting movement between them. For example, in the North section, Israel separates the Nablus area, which is under siege, from the nearby villages, and also from the other northern districts – Jenin, Tubas, and Tulkarm. In the Central section, the restrictions on movement create two principal subsections, around Salfit and Ramallah. Not only do the restrictions separate nearby villages from these towns, they also detach villagers from their farmland.

http://tinyurl.com/6b4ntf

5: Making movements of Palestinians next to impossible? Check.

The restrictions have made traveling from one section to another an exceptional occurrence, subject to various conditions and proof of justification for the journey. Almost every trip in the West Bank entails a great loss of time, much uncertainty, friction with soldiers, and often substantial additional expense.

http://tinyurl.com/6b4ntf

Those are the ingredients of Apartheid. The only place where Israel differs from South Africa is the the fact that they have given up on annexing all of West Bank. They just want the best part of it. Kinda like the South Africans and their annexation attempts in Namibia.

This is not how you treat people like human beings. Most of the sh**the Palestinians go through has nothing to do with security. If Israel wanted the security they would have dismantled the settlements considered illegal byEU,UN and funnily enough Israeli law.


nearly 40% of the land the settlements sit on is, according to official data, "effectively stolen" from Palestinian landowners. .... In recent years the Israeli government has said repeatedly that it respects Palestinian property rights in the West Bank.


If Israel was really interested in it's own security. What they would have done is to build the wall ON Israel territory has international law requires. Get rid of all the checkpoints that aren't near Israel. Build bases in the West Bank to make sure the Palestinians aren't up to any shenanigans that could endanger Israelis. They haven't done that.

What they have been doing is trying to create a fait accompli. Has I said earlier. This is almost working. Ever since Reagan America has taken the stance some of the settlements should stay. Especially Bush.

resident George Bush has stated that he does not expect Israel to return entirely to pre-1967 borders, due to "new realities on the ground."

http://tinyurl.com/6xwkr3

#8 Re: Not So Free Chat » Has Multiculturalism Failed ? » 2008-05-25 10:41:25

It doesn't matter if 25% of kids in school don't speak English at home. They will learn English has their second language and will be able to speak it. This isn't America where it is possible to spend decades living in an ethnic enclave where you don't have to speak English. These kids will be exposed to English every single day.

Whether they actually pick up the language is not the issue, thanks to political correctness, they are not required to speak it. The result is people bend over backwards to accommodate them to avoid "discrimination". Under such conditions, its actually more profitable to not learn the language, if only to extract more assistance.

No it isn't. Has a guy who came into this country speaking english has a fourth language now first. It defiantly not true. Unless you live in a strong ethnic enclave there is no way you can live day to day without knowing English. All you get is some help in the council buildings and letters. Thats it. Your not going to get extra benefits for not speaking English.  Most of this hysteria is spread by people who have no knowledge at how immigrants live.

#9 Re: Space Policy » President of India calls for joint - US/Indian habitat on Mars by 2050 » 2008-05-24 19:07:53

How did this go from India-US cooperation to which is weaker USA or China? 

Funny thing is that the European Union is acting more like a country every single year and at this moment it's the most economically powerful country in the world. At this moment the Western nations are well developed while the Eastern and Central countries are catching up so it's going to get more and more powerful. Now If only France and UK would behave themselves.

Anyway to stick to the topic. Every single time different countries cooperate in Space it's a good thing. Not because some people like Tom thinks it's a FU at China. It's good because it helps to transfer technology and future peace in space. The last thing we need is a new Space Race with arbitrary goals that are only there for political goals rather then getting and keeping humans in space.

#10 Re: Human missions » Real human missions available - apply now » 2008-05-24 18:49:09

Last time ESA accepted astronauts thousands of people applied and only three got in. The chances for the ordinary Joe Shmoe is to low to even bother. They are going to want military men and women.

#11 Re: Not So Free Chat » Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$ » 2008-05-24 18:30:32

These guys are crazy.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/id … 7220080506

NEW YORK, May 6 (Reuters) - The number of options positions betting on oil reaching $200 a barrel has tripled since the start of the year as prices have kept surging to fresh peaks, according to Reuters data.

I'm always amused by the inability of humans to learn from their mistakes. The South Sea bubble should have been the last bubble in history but they just keep coming up. Now that the Housing markets around the world look like they are about to pop. You still have people playing with Oil.

Here's to the hope that Central Banks will refuse to bail them out and they won't drag us down with them.

#12 Re: Not So Free Chat » Did Iran become a player in space ? » 2008-05-24 16:35:07

What was that about Hezbollah 'defending' Lebanon from Israel? Who started the fight? Hezbollah. So was Israel meant to just sit there with missiles reigning down on Israeli Civilians? No. The Lebanese wouldn't do anything to stop Hezbollah so the Israelis had to stop them.

The war between Hezbollah and Israel was never over. It's still not over now.  Just beause the Israelis got their ass kicked after their original 80s invasion and occupation of Lebanon and then ran away doesn't mean. That the war is over. Israel is still occupying Lebanese land. All soldiers legitimate targets. Complaining about Israeli civilians being targetted is a bit of a moot point when the IAF attacked civilians and then broke international law by seeding Lebanese farms with cluster bombs 3 days before the ceasefire came into effect.

Seems to me that Syria and Iran are occupying Lebanon right now. Israel holds no Lebanese land currently. Lebanon is not an independent country anyway, Hezbollah controls the streets and the Lebanese Parliment only has the power that Hezbollah allows them to have. I think Lebanon could easily have democracy again if they only sent all their muslims packing and ship them out to Iran or Syria where they belong, as they are acting as those countries' stooges anyway.

So far the only two countries occupying in the middle east in USA and Israel. Lebanon is not occupied by Syria or Iran but parts of it is occupied by Israel. But Israel refuses to leave that part of Lebanon considering it part of Syria.

Hezbollah is a resistance movement. Hezbollah was responsible for destroying the militant Lebanese force who were armed by Israel and tortured  Lebanese civilians. Israel left Southern Lebanon after the public refused to sit by and watch Israeli soldiers dying. Unlike Israel Hezbollah doesn't want to control Lebanon. If they wanted to do that they could so easily wipe out the Lebanese armies and the other parties.

The only part of Lebanon Hezbollah controls is Southern Lebanon and they allow the goverment to do what ever they want has long has it doesn't affect the capability of Hezbollah to fight Israel. Something even the Lebanese army realised was a stupid mistake to do.


By the way. What is is with you and your ethnic cleansing plans? Do you not have solutions to ideas that doesn't involve war crimes? Learn your facts before you say something stupid like that. The Muslims in Lebanon were forced to live in Lebanon because of France. They know identify has Lebanese.

In fact Lebanon is divided into two camps.  Sunni Muslims and Christians and Shia Muslims and Christians. Now how the hell are you going to deport Muslims when the people in power (Sunni Muslims) are the ones being funded by Bush? That's basically shooting your friends in the face.

If you have an idea for that would work in Middle East and wouldn't end up with you being hanged by the a court. Please post. Other wise don't.

#13 Re: Not So Free Chat » Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$ » 2008-05-24 16:23:15

I'd like to see the oil problem solved someday, but this would require actually solving the problem and not engaging in the search for scapegoats.

Dude you are the one looking for scapegoats. You keep insulting Arabs despite the fact that they have no control over the oil prices. I keep telling you that. Yet you seem to believe that OPEC still has it's old power. YOU are the one who isn't getting it. You don't listen to anybody who disagrees with you.



Democrats love to blame US Oil companies because they can easily affect them with "remedial legislation", and they refuse to look beyond the US borders for the cause of high gas prices, because that would be inconvenient for them as it so much easier to tax and penalize a domestic oil company, although it doesn't do the public any good. We import 40% of our oil, that fact has not escaped me.

No one is blaming the oil companies for the high prices. It's  something you've dreamed up. What we are doing is saying that they can go easy on the profit they take. You don't seem to understand how oil profits work. The majority of the costs doesn't come from the Middle East or in fact extracting the oil. It doesn't come from the Indian gas owner being mistaken for an Arab by a redneck.  The costs comes from the oil markets and the refineries who are at max capacity.

Here is what Shell has to say about high oil prices.


"What we say and what we see is there are no physical shortages," Shell's Jeroen van der Veer told Reuters television. He runs the world's second-largest fully publicly traded oil firm by market value.

"There are no tankers waiting in the Middle East, there are no cars waiting at gasoline stations because they are out of stock. This has to do with psychology in the markets and you cannot forecast psychology"

http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/id … 9720080522

I think they might as well "blame the Jews" with the same arguments, or accuse old ladies of being witches with the same sort of reasoning.

Funny thing coming from the guy who blames Arabs for his suffering and enters the terrorism of racism. If Anti-semitism actually meant the hatred of semite speaking people. You sir would be an anti-semite. Have fun and go learn what speculation is.

#14 Re: Not So Free Chat » Has Multiculturalism Failed ? » 2008-05-24 10:15:33

It doesn't matter if 25% of kids in school don't speak English at home. They will learn English has their second language and will be able to speak it. This isn't America where it is possible to spend decades living in an ethnic enclave where you don't have to speak English. These kids will be exposed to English every single day.

#15 Re: Not So Free Chat » Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$ » 2008-05-24 10:13:50

They would also cut down on the consumption of oil when they kill millions of human beings when they nuke New York City, or Los Angeles or Washington DC, and we would further cut oil consumption when we kill millions of human beings when we retaliate against Iran.

There is no evidence of Iran having weapons. Wanting weapons. In fact these so called weapons research exists only in the mind of simple minded people. Every single shred of evidence that Iran wanted weapons has been disproven. The dumbest moment was when American intelligence officers came up with an Iranian laptop that supposedly contained designs for a weapon. I'm not sure if American news organisations expect for the Time reported it. But it was actually quite embarrassing watching the UN and EU calling them out on their fake evidence.

The economic effects of even a small nuclear war between two countries would be devastating worldwide. Most likely Iran's export oil terminals would be hit by us or rendered inoperational, and Iran's oil would be off the World market for some time to follow, this would also reduce the consumption of oil world wide, but perhaps the goal should be to mitigate the effects of an energy shortage rather than just to force us to use less oil by destroying suppliers and customers in a nuclear war.

Even IF Iran had  weapons. Who the hell will they use against?  Israel?  That country that has Palestinians and Islams holiest mosques (not counting the holy cities of Mecca and Medina)?  Will they get a submarine and bombard USA? A country thats several times bigger then Iran? It's all bloody fantasy.

Whats probably going to happen is Israel will try a pre-emptive strike and then Iranians will shoot them down causing global tensions.

Interesting reality you've constructed there.

Aren't you the guy living in the fantasy world?  You get your facts from news channels. To make it worse AMERICAN news channels.

. If Saudis are angry at us, that anger is displaced. We do not control their government, if we did, we'd make it the 51st State,

You protect the government.

and then they'd have democracy, and we'd have their oil.

They would probably argue for better deals when it comes to trade.

I'm sure US official would rather have cheap oil than make a few Saudi officials rich. Saudi Citizens are mostly "spoiled brats", they live quite well for themselves at our expense when we pay $4 per gallon for gasoline and up.

If you don't like the Saudis that much take a bus. Even though the oil that fuels your car doesn't come from Saudi Arabia.

If we had effective control over the Saudi government, our oil companies would be all over the place drilling for oil and looking to more oil fields to maximise production, but we don't have that situation, so its basically a left-wing fantasy that we control the Saudi government designed to make Saudis mad at us.

It's a right wing fantasy that the Saudi Arabian is free to do what ever it wants. Keeping the House of Saud in power means lucrative deals. The deals are so lucrative  that Americans arrested three British men who were behind a HUGE deal with Saudi Arabia that involved bribes.

Hmm, "I speculate that the price of oil will reach $200 per barrel by next year." There now I speculated on oil, did I drive the price up? "Or perhaps the price of oil will drop to $50 a barrel by next year." Will that statement lower the price of oil? "Perhaps the Chinese economy will collapse, maybe there will be another revolution with resulting chaos and economic collapse, this might reduce the demand for oil and thereby price." Another speculation. Does speculation on what might occur in the future affect the price? How do we stop such wild and irresponsible statements? I am only exercising my freedom of speech by saying such things, do we abolish the First Amendment?

Either this is a bad joke or you really shouldn't be allowed to use your keyboard. Your making a fool of your self. You have no idea how the market works.


[/img]

Now do we allow the Government to say, "Hush!" and not allow us to speculate on the future price of oil for fear that we might actually affect that price through such speculation? If we can't talk about oil, then how can we propose a plan to do something about it?

Actually the government can. It happened a couple of weeks ago when people were spreading rumours about a major bank in the UK. The Bank of England stepped in after the shares of the bank crashed.

If the Israeli settlers can evacuate the Gaza Strip, why not also evacuate the Palestinians as well? If the Palestinians are not there, they cannot fire rockets into Israel from that location.

Think about this for a moment. Where will the Palestinians go? Israel? No way. Egypt? No way since Israel can't force thousands of people to go to a sovereign country that hasn't been told about it. Your idea makes no sense at all.

Gaza would make a nice nature preserve, all sorts of endangered creatures that are threatened by development could live there and not be hunted, all the roads would be closed, all buildings would be raized to the ground and dirt piled on top.

You know most of the 500 Arab villages destroyed during the war are actually supporting wild life? The Jews wanted to hide their crime so they made sure cactus grew there.

. A place devoid of humans might just be what is required to end the rocket attacks, that is surely a solution King Solomon would have been proud of. Palestinians have proven that they are incapable of being good neighbors to the Israelis, so maybe they shouldn't be allowed to be neighbors at all as a consequence of that behavior. They can all live in Iran, since Iran is sponsoring them, plenty of land in Iran from which they can build houses and live, and none of their small home made rockets can reach Israel from there.

I think King Solomon would be more upset over the war crimes committed by his people.

But we don't have a time machine where we can rewide time back to 1948 and then say we should not establish the State of Israel, that has already been done so it is not one of your options. We live in the situation we have now and must deal with the history we've got. If I had a time machine, I'd go back to the 8th century and kidnap Mohammad before he ever amounted to anything and bring him back to the 21st century, there would be no muslims in this altered history, and much of the situation between Jews and Arabs would not then exist. But that is my fantasy. In reality Israel exists and has existed since 1948, the Arabs are trying to change this situation by destroying Israel, and so long as they try to do this there can be no peace. There is no way to reason with someone who wants to destroy you, so the best solution I can see now is to remove all Palestinians from the Gaza strip and turn the whole place into a nature preserve.


That makes no sense whats so ever. That is fait accompli. The exact same thing I was talking about earlier. Your reasoning for Palestinians not getting their land is because they didn't see it. Yet you are willing to ignore the Jews who never saw their land for thousands of years because they came 60 years ago. So basically 60 years trumps 2000 years? So what if Palestinains managed to destroy Israel and the Jews wanted to still live in there? Would you tell them no because Israel was already destroyed?

Diesel costs more than gasoline by the way. I don't like my lifestyle being forcibly changed by some outside force. They say that necessity is the mother of invention, we have the necessity, so now we need the invention such as alternate fueled and powered cars, not reducing our standard of living and tightening belts.

This is a good example of whats wrong with people. Wanting some kinda miracle cure to fix their problems. Well good luck mate. Nothing is coming in the near future that will help you keep your living standards.

The classic liberal response is to blame American Oild companies, they don't own the oil fields in Saudi Arabia, they used to, but the Saudi government nationalized them in the 1970s, so all the oil companies can do now is:
1) buy oil on the international market and pass on the costs to their customers.
or
2) Look for new oil fields and start drilling for new oil, but the liberals say "do not drill here, you'll upset the carabu, or don't drill their, you'll spoil my view of the ocean and kill fish with your oil spills."

I'm not sure if this is a typical right wing response or the response of someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.

1: Oil companies don't own the fields but owning an oil field isn't the be all and end all of the oil industry. There are many many stages in the oil. The majority of the cost comes AFTER the oil is pumped out. Especially in the Middle East where the oil is cheap to take out.
2: Only a fool would damage the environment in a foolish pursuit of commodities that will run out. Especially when the Oil companies refuse to pay for the damage they cause. Exxon Valdez spill is still in the courts.

Tom, I don’t feel it’s worth engaging with Stormrage. He appears to have an ideological commitment and a very elaborate interpretation of reality, including history, which appears to be impervious to facts, new or different information, the reasoning of others and any willingness to understand others interests and points of view.

I'm questioning if I should even bother talking to you guys any more. You guys are the one living in a fantasy world not me. Nothing I have ever said in this forum has ever been proven to be untrue. I said Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jews after the invasion of '41. No one proved it wrong they just said it was wrong. I'm saying that American Oil barely comes from the Middle East. No one has proven it wrong. I think it's you guys who have an idealogical problems. I'm centre-Right but you guys are so far right you make me look like a pinko. An Educated communist. Especially when Tom keeps talking about stuff he has no idea about. Which is so sad that I can't be bothered to laugh at his speculation comment.

Thats because we have a basic understanding of economics. Do you know what happens when you tax a corporation? They pass the cost on to the consumers until the consumers refuse to buy it and they go into the red, the stock price plummets, and they go out of business, or alternatively, they eat the cost, go into the red, the stock price plummets and they go out of business.

What exactly entitles you to tell others what to do with their money?


You don't seem to understand economics yourself. There is a point to most people especially Americans. When they will refuse to take on higher petrol prices. The Oil companies know that and so do the government. If a strong President with a backbone threatened them they would back down. There is now way the Oil companies would be able to portray themselves has victims and pass on the costs. Especially now that the Oil companies are earning record profit.

#16 Re: Not So Free Chat » The Flag that Barack Obama won't wear » 2008-05-24 09:34:05

No, you see we are just bitter because we believe in the right of self defense and a power greater than ourselves.

Don't forget the economic down turn.

To stop doing things that weakens the country and the individual and makes it harder to live here would be a nice start.

Thats funny. Because it seems to me your idea of patriotism is to be an asshole in the world. Bush has made more enemies and lost more friends then Clinton. If thats patriotism I really hate to seem what John McCains idea will be.


As opposed to the Marxist loving Barrack Obama, or the Hillary Clinton loving Hillary Clinton?

As for the lefts blatant and failed effort to infect McCain with QPS (Questionable Pastor Syndrome) that your referencing, it's just furthur proof that McCain is hands down more qualified than Obama, because McCain has the stones rid himself of people who spend all their time swallowing their own feet.

Actually what the left are trying to do is to show how stupid the Right are being with Wright by showing that McCain has a bad pastor. McCain didn't have the guts to to distance him self from him. When He was raving against Catholics and others all McCain said was I'm glad for your support. He only backed away from him when he mentioned Hitler.


p.s. People tend to look on at Hitler has worse then Marx and Hillary Clinton.

#17 Re: Not So Free Chat » Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$ » 2008-05-23 09:05:23

Everytime we buy oil, we are helping to finance a nuclear program in Iran, every barrel of oil we burn slowly and economically gets turned into a nuclear bomb which may someday blow up one of our cities. The liberals and Democrats do not want to notice Iran's nuclear program, because to do so would be to admit that George Bush was right and they hate Bush.

Which is a good thing. If the Iranians use Nuclear power they would be cutting down their consumption of Oil and helping the environment.

The Saudis play both sides, some of them are on our side and some like to kill Americans, they both take the steady flow of American dollars into there country for granted. Our enemies take our patronidge for granted and then they attack us with our own money.

No they don't. The dictatorship that is in power thanks to America,France and Britain supports USA and Europe. That support comes with American and European promise to never help democracy groups and pay the Saudis bribes. The Saudi people hate their government and they hate USA for supporting it. Most of them can't be bothered to actually do anything though because life is good for those who have money and those who don't have anything are trying to suck up to the government officals to get them. The religous men who can't be corrupted by money support terrorism. They how ever are a tiny percent of the population. If the the entire population wanted to fund terrorism right now. American planes would be going down like flies in Iraq and Afghanistan.

There is but one world market in oil. Every barrel we buy is a barrel not available to someone else, a barrel that some would buy from the Middle East. The higher we drive the World Market price in oil by buying some, the higher the Saudis and Iranians can sell their oil to someone else for.

The Saudis have no real power to change the price. They can increase the price by cutting down on production but thats it. The people who have the real power aren't even Arabs. Blame it on the speculators. Go watch the news. When ever something happens in Africa of the Middle East price always goes up.

If the Palestinians sold all the weapons they had ever received from their "Muslim brothers" to kill Jews with, they could probably afford nice homes for themselves. If all the free education they received on classes on how to build bombs were applied elsewhere, they could have skilled jobs. But the Saudis and the Iranians aren't interested in raising Palestinian standards of living, they just want to turn them into human weapons to kill Jews with.

It's hard to have high living standards if the Israeli Settlers next door get 80% of the water despite being less numerous then you.  roll  Israel left Gaza because it was to dangerous and expensive to control it just because of a few settlements. Not because the Palestinians were super nice. All that is left is for the West Bank.


The Saudis have plenty more land that the Israelis do, and the Israelis don't have any oil fields to speak of, they've held onto the core of Israel since 1948. Why should most Palestinians kill themselves over land most of them have never seen? Land that doesn't have oil to boot.

The Generation of Jews who came to Israel never saw their land for 2000 years. So it's ok in your books to take over a certain land has long has it wasn't recent?

Oil price has risen to $135 a barrel and this will have a real effect on everyone on this forums lives.

Has a guy who takes the bus. My ticket price won't increase this year. smile My food bill will probably change though.

It also doesn't excuse the governments criminal restrictions on the oil industry and over taxation.

lol  This is why I love Americans. Despite taxes on Oil companies being cut and them getting record profits you complain about taxes. The Oil companies aren't losing any money. They are making so much money they can wipe their asses with a Benjamin. If anything the government should threaten them with a tax rise if they don't decrease the share of money they get from petrol. It's not going to hurt them much. If they lose 50% of their profits they would still be filthy rich.  It's not like they  are reinvesting that money into alternative energy.


I think wave technology could become very important in the UK.

It's to unreliable for my taste. Whats going to happen if the seas are calm? Thats why I'm suspicious of almost all renewable methods.  I personally like the Desert idea being flouted by the Germans. Their plan is to put thousands of solar panels in North Africa. The energy from there will be sent to Europe and the excess energy will be sent to molten tanks of salt. When there is a high demand for energy which the solar panels can't fill the molten tank will be used for extra energy. At night the Molten tank will be in use to power Europe. Another thing thats great about this is the fact that it will use excess energy to desalinate the water for the Arabs in North Africa.

#18 Re: Not So Free Chat » The Flag that Barack Obama won't wear » 2008-05-23 08:38:18

Jeremiah Wright is not going away, we'll see how smart the American people are come this November. Fox certainly is not going to let go of this story, and I hope this helps.

Just looking at the reaction from America. It appears the people in the South particularly older white people and those in the MidWest aren't that smart. I think it's called Redneckitis.  :twisted:


At least the problems with the respective two major Parties are the following: With Republicans its a matter of corruption, and the Economy, with Democrats it a matter of Patriotism.

Patriotism? What would it take for you to think that the Democracts love Ameica? Bombing Iran to death?


By the way. Are you guys going to be voting for the Hitler loving McCain?

#19 Re: Not So Free Chat » Did Iran become a player in space ? » 2008-05-22 02:46:50

What was that about Hezbollah 'defending' Lebanon from Israel? Who started the fight? Hezbollah. So was Israel meant to just sit there with missiles reigning down on Israeli Civilians? No. The Lebanese wouldn't do anything to stop Hezbollah so the Israelis had to stop them.

The war between Hezbollah and Israel was never over. It's still not over now.  Just beause the Israelis got their ass kicked after their original 80s invasion and occupation of Lebanon and then ran away doesn't mean. That the war is over. Israel is still occupying Lebanese land. All soldiers legitimate targets. Complaining about Israeli civilians being targetted is a bit of a moot point when the IAF attacked civilians and then broke international law by seeding Lebanese farms with cluster bombs 3 days before the ceasefire came into effect.

Islam has the cheek to lecture the rest of the world about tolerance when inIslamic Countries converting to another religon is, by law, punishable by death, Christains are beheaded, sharing a faith other than Islam is punishable by death...

Islam has to do nothing. Learn the difference. Islam = Religon. Muslims =  People. Come back with a good argument when you can tell the difference.

Yes, I do in fact.

Well has we have already found out. Your knowledge of the Middle East is non-existent. So think what ever you want.

I'm sorry that I have to keep on giving this history lesson, but many people keep on forgetting this important point.

How can you give me a history lesson when you don't even know it?

"the sanctions that killed 100 000's of Iraqi were just horrendous."

This is a rather silly myth.

You mean like the myth that USA used chemicals on innocent Vietnamese?  Or the myth that America jailed it's own citizens for being Japanese,Italian and German.

I know of only one apartheid regime, South Africa from 1948 or so to 1994 or so. Nobody invaded South Africa to change their system; perhaps because they weren’t threatening anybody else.

The other apartheid regime is Israel and nobody invaded SA. Thats because USA was paying South Africa to invade their African neighbours. The bolded part is really funny because for the last 30 years of South Africa's life they were invading sovereign African countries,occupied Namibia and funded terrorists.  USA was there with them. America bank rolled South Africa. In fact the only time when South Africa faced real problems was after the Cold War was over and there were no excuses for helping them.

“I'm referring to Israel. They run a de-facto apartheid regime.”

I think that’s rather disrespectful of the tens of millions of Blacks who endured real Apartheid.

It’s easy to cheapen the currency of language, but then, of course, it’s a lot harder to know what we are really talking about. Misunderstanding is not usually a good thing when one seeks accommodation and reconciliation.

Has a Black African who has spent time in South Africa and actually meet both sides of the people involved. There is no way you can't call Israel an apartheid state. Their attempt at creating bantustans in West Bank is such an obvious example. I know how you Israeli supports like to rush to defend Israel. But take a look at the country your defending and compare it to South Africa before you complain over the word.

What is demonstrated is "cart before the horse" reasoning. The reason the Israelis have seperate roads is directly attributed to the violent behavior of the Palestinians and their expressed support for violence as demostrated by their election of Hamas in the Gaza strip.

psst. Jews kicked many Arabs who remained behind after the 48 war. Take a look at Israeli demographic maps. The only Israeli Arabs on the map are those in areas where Jews didn't want to live at 48.

What do the Israelis get for whatever they give? Land for promises doesn’t seem like a real good deal.

Israel has never given anything substantial.  They think that giving at 60% of West Bank and all of Gaza should be enough to get peace.  roll  Unless Israel treats Arabs like decent human beings l who can't be bought off with paltry offerings they will never find peace.

They can’t give much in the way of land or they won’t have a viable state. They can’t allow a significant number of Arabs to return to Israel or they won’t have a viable state. The Israelis are not going to commit suicide.

They could buy off land taken from Palestinians. How about that?  Besides what your just wrote is what the South Africans were thinking prior to 1990. Whites would be marginalised if they allowed Blacks to take over. They waited so long until finally when they lost power it was to late. Black people hated them for the years of suffering.

Firstly, there's no substantial evidence that Israel possesses nuclear weapons and if they do they are clearly useless against suicide bombers inside their country. If they exist they are also not a very effective deterrent against Iran as it continues to press ahead with its nuclear program while fighting a proxy war with Israel using Hezbollah, and promising to wipe Israel off the map.

Considering that the UK admitted to supplying Israel with water they knew was going to be used to make Nukes and the expose that Vanunu gave which earnt him a solitary cell in Israel for 18 years. The position that Israel has no nukes is really untenable.

It's really stupid for them to have developed Nuclear Weapons. The world is like 1945. People aren't going to accept using nuclear weapons. Any use of that weapon and there is no way any American President will be able to defend Israel.

#20 Re: Not So Free Chat » Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$ » 2008-05-22 02:16:46

I don't really care if Saudi Arabia has a 100 year supply of crude oil, the problem is, as Winston Churchill said, is its concentration. Oil is concentrated in all the wrong places across the globe and it grants boons of cash to the undeserving, lazy, and violent.

You do realize that the people you are insulting are the only people in the world who are actually behind America? If they wanted to at this very moment they could send the dollar into a freefall that would ruin the American economy. Lazy and violent?  roll  They earned the right to be lazy when God gave them Oil. They have also earnt the right to be "violent" when they have been propping up the American military hardware companies. Why don't you actually complain about people who are in it for themselves. Not people who waste billions in deals that serves no one but Americans and Brits.

These people also seem highly unappreciative of all the cash we're putting into their pockets

Your not putting cash into their pockets and you haven't been for the last 30 years.  The biggest consumers of Middle East Oil are East Asians and Europeans. How ever due to the arab states favourable relationship with USA they make their customers buy their money in dollars. I don't see a thank you from you or any other American.

One of the reason's I am not so sympathetic to the Palestinians is that they have rich friends who give them weapons

WTF? Just because of people they are related to? Are you serious?

and everything they need to kill Jews, yet they continue to let them live in squallor in the shadow of Israeli occupation.

Could it be because Israel controls the West Bank and Gaza while the other


If the Saudis wanted to put the Palestinians up in nice homes in their own territory free of violence, they probably could, especially with the prices were paying for gas today, but instead of sharing the wealth with their Palestinians brothers, they are using them for cannon-fodder against Israelis and programming them to "self-destruct" in order to create carnage.


The Saudis would never give the Palestinians their own land. That would automatically mean that the Israeli Jews who stole their land where in the right. Besides do you really think the Palestinians would forget about their homes? These people have pictures,deeds and keys to their old homes. You are dreaming if you think they would easily forget it just for a life of luxury.

The reason the Israelis are the way they are is in part because the Palestinians are the way they are, and the Saudis and their so-called "friends" the Iranians want to keep them that way. We would end this war alot sooner if half our population weren't so willing to give into them in the name of their opposition to war.

Thats not true. The Israeli Jews who came in to Palestine were racists who thought that their European culture was superior to the Arabs. They didn't care about the fact that the Arabs live in the supposedly empty land without a people. They thought the Arabs would appreciate being lifted out of ignorance. The Jews thought badly of the Arabs a long time ago. It's false to blame that on the Arabs. It's also so surprising to see you post on subject matters you barely know anything about. Your news channels must be doing you disservice because the Saudis and the Iranians have never ever been friends. It's not just because of the Sunni/Shia rivalry. It's also the fact that Iran is an Iranian country (to call them Persian is actually offensive) while Saudi Arabia is an Arab country.

This war by the way would have ended a long time ago if the American people could actually wise up and read a book or two. Do some research instead of swallowing what your Commander in Chief and his Vice says. When ever the Vice President of the Second most powerful entity in the world says that you have to break  human rights law it's when you are supposed to stop listening to them.


An efficient market would not reward lazy people with the hard earned money of working people. People have to work hard to earn their paychecks while fat lazy Arabs sit on their duffs, steal money, and plot the next terrorist attack against their customers.

Racist? Check. Now that I think about it. It's not surprising. You did after all call for ethnic cleansings of Iraqi Sunnis.

In case your not aware. Oil is a high price commodity. It only requires a limited amount of people to do a limited amount of work while the payoff is huge.

think an oil cartel or any sort of artificial monopoly is stealing, and I think we have sufficient military resources to put a stop to that if we really wanted. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for those oil rick fat cats that have all that time on their hands to buy weapons and arm terrorists while pursuing their religious Jihad.

If only this was true. Which it isn't. Just you rambling on something you have no idea. OPEC hasn't been a cartel in a long time and their power is basically non-existent. The only power they have so far is whether to switch to Euros and helping their economy or to stick with the dying Dollar. So far all but two of them have choosen the latter. Also the Saudi countries don't finance terrorists. Some of their people do. Just like the way Americans financed the IRA terorrists who killed innocent British civilians. Expect the difference between the Arabs and USA in the 70-80s is that the Arabs are actually pro-active in fighting terrorism while the Americans just ignored it and watched oeople in the UK getting blown to pieces.

Maybe the oil fields of the Middle East ought to be considered a World Resource and exporpriated accordingly.

Maybe you should typing if you don't think through your ideas properly. Do you even know what will happen if Bush tried to implement this?

Iran and Saudi Arabia would collapse economically without their oil wealth, they don't work for it, they hire foreigners to pump it out for them, and they take the money and spend some of it on Jihad, and I think the rest of the World's population ought to have something to say about it.

I'm cringing just reading this. I actually feel embarrassed for you.

1: Iran and Saudi Arabia have a right to hire foreign.  Some of those foreigners are actually Americans. Hey guess what? 11 million illegal Mexican workers are in the US right now. Why don't you complain about them first.
2: Only Iran and Saudi Arabia have a say on their money. If you don't like it don't buy oil. Walk to work.

The proof is in the price of gas and oil, it shouldn't go from $1.50 to $2 to $3 and then $4 per gallon all in a short period of time.

Nothing has changed from 1.50 to 4. Expect for the fact that Demand is going down and the value of the dollar is falling. If you have a problem with high gas prices move to the cities and then execute speculators. They are the people behind the high prices.

If this was an efficient market with plenty of suppliers, there wouldn't be bottlenecks that can be manipulated by a few to produce vast gyrations in the price of gasoline and oil.

A failure to grasp the basics of the Oil Industry. Nothing happens in a few short years. Things take decades.

I'd just say that's too bad and point my finger at those same despots and say it is all their fault for making us do this

Kinda funny that it's the US who is propping up these despots.

#21 Re: Not So Free Chat » Perspective » 2008-05-18 09:48:26

I think they should send the Army!

They're supposedly trained for the hardest conditions and to survive with a bare minimum big_smile

Well seeing how they managed to fail to adapt to Iraq and Afghanistan. They would probably just shoot each other.

probably, but they would being doing so off Earth and to each other so we don't hav to worry too much about them being used for general havok on Earth.

If a bunch of idiots blew their heads of in space. That would tarr space exploration for a long time. You would get Fox News and other reactionary American news channels inviting guests with agendas talking about how bad space is and how useless it is to go there.

#22 Re: Not So Free Chat » The Flag that Barack Obama won't wear » 2008-05-18 09:46:37

Look at McCain. He was for talking to Hamas. Hamas hasn't changed from 2006 and 2008. It's still the same group with the same tactics. Now that he is a nominee he's a hardass. Because he doesn't want to appear weak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ATuxuebh0

THATS RIGHT. MCCAIN WANTS TO TALK TO HAMAS.


I made it big so that nobody would miss it. This is a big post.

lol
If thats your ace in the hole, go home, Seriously.

Theres a big difference between Obamas face to face, no preconditions, chief executive to chief executive chit chats, and were going to have to deal with them one way or the other.

You can catch McCain on a lot of things. This ain't one of them

Nope. Obama wanted to talk to a head of state of an another country accused of something that has never been proven. McCain wanted to talk to a group listed has terrorists by the European and American governments. Suddenly he wants to become president and he changes his tune.  roll  I thought the gas break and Al-Qaeda being trained in Iran gaffes were evidence of him being just another idiot politician who panders to what people want not need, but him going 180 on Hamas is.

#23 Re: Not So Free Chat » Did Iran become a player in space ? » 2008-05-18 09:42:53

Thanks for providing a perfect example of how a discussion about the nature of terrorism and those that choose to ignore it gets transformed into a personal attack. Instead of debating the character of terror or the point that some people chose to overlook it and blame others, you chose to fabricate my position and facts on entirely different topics. Further discussion is probably pointless and will no doubt be unpleasant.

Nope. It's an example of what can happen to a person when they debate with someone who can't see beyond what they are told. I did not fabricate your position. To support the war on terror and Iraq is to support what is happening in the name of the war. Gitmo,Bagram and the kidnappings.


There's plenty of evidence to show the current military strategy is working and terrorism is being defeated in Iraq and Afghanistan. As is often said, the Islamists can't win their war with the West, but the West can lose it.

No it isn't. The war in Afghanistan isn't won yet. No where near it. Analyst are warning of a long war and that was when the Taliban were fighting a conventional warfare. If they switch over to an Iraqi style war who knows what will happen.

The only reason why Iraq is being pacified is because of the Sunni tribes. They can switch any time and bring back the situation to where it was last year. Besides look at Iraq now. It's not safe. The violence has gone to 2005 level. Deaths are also mounting.


So what's the alternative for dealing with radial Islamic terrorism, surrender and convert to Wahhabism?

How about you leave muslims alone? Thats you problem not radical Islam (such thing doesn't exist by the way). You can't expect to meddle in other peoples affair which always leads to countless deaths on the side of the people who are meddled with and then expect them to like you.

Well here's a small piece of evidence from yesterday - now where's the evidence to show that the Iraqi government and coalition strategy is not working?

Here

With the cease-fire agreement between the Sadrist movement and the Iraqi government now in full effect after the four-day grace period that began on May 11,

This is not the first time there was a ceasefire signed with the Mahdi Army. The fact that the Iraqi Government and US soldiers signed it just means that it will avoid violence for a couple of months before it flares up again. Just like all the other ceasefires.

Invading Afghanistan and fighting AQ and the Iranian backed groups in Iraq is eroding their support base. The coalition is under UN mandate to be inside both Iraq and Afghanistan as well as being requested by their governments. Should the coalition ignore the UN and those governments that desperately need help?

Those were AFTER the invasions. USA/UK and the other brown nosing nations who invaded never got permission to invade Iraq by the UN. If Iran invaded Iraq in 2003 Bush would be supplying Iran weapons faster then a speeding train.


Islamic terrorism existed a long time before the Baathists and the Taliban were removed from power. What are the causes of Islamic terrorism?

America was meddling in Muslim affairs before 9/11. Several decades before 9/11. Do you seriously think that a bunch of Muslims decided one day. "Hey lets hate America for having freedom"

#24 Re: Not So Free Chat » Did Iran become a player in space ? » 2008-05-17 13:17:52

Most people value life unlike the AQ and other terrorists who have made it clear that life is of no consequence to them other than a way to leverage their own power and force eveyone to worship their own perverted form of Islam. It's astounding that apologists for terrorism not only ignore its horrific deliberate inhuman brutality aimed at innocent civilians but spend their time and energy blaming those who are trying to deal with it.

I'm actually astounded at you neo-cons. You support war on terrorism and complain about the inhumanity of terrorists. Yet you ignore and sometimes even actually support torture,kidnapping of "suspects" and black sites. You support the War on Iraq DESPITE THE FACT THAT SADDAM WAS A SECULAR LEADER. When he was in power he only used religion to show his people that he was "the defender of Islam". You people support Israel and their war crimes.

It's one thing to be anti terrorist and pro Israel. It's an another thing to support war crimes committed by USA and Israel. That is why you people are worse then liberals. I have never seen a liberal who agreed with terrorist actions. At best they would agree with their aims like the freeing Iraq from occupation or the defence of Lebanon by Hezbollah but never the methods.

Nope. At least 300,000 graves, and they keep finding more.

Unlike some people who believe the largest number they read, the number of people who have died in Iraq since the removal of the Baathist terror regime is not precisely known. What is known is that the majority of them have not been killed by Coalition forces, and the majority of those that were, were terrorists and insurgents. Furthermore, many more civilians would probably have died under five more years of Saddam's rule.

Well I'm going to have to call bullshit on that. There is no way in Gods green earth that 300k mass graves would be found and barely anybody knows about it. Heck Bush and Hamas fan McCain would be talking about it all day long.

Btw the minimum casualties can be guessed in Iraq. All Iraqi Morgues and Hospitals have to tell the Minstery of Health of any deaths and wounds at the end of the day. In 2006 before the Civil War reached it's height a 150,000 people where dead.  150,000 people who would have been alive today if it wasn't for USA. In Saddams time. Saddam would only kill you if you stood in his way,threatened his power or embarrassed him. The Kurds betrayed Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war and they got gassed. The Shia and the Kurds fought to over throw Saddam in the 90s and they got massacred. Saddam never went around killing people for the fun.  In post Invasion Iraq people can die just going to the shops. 

I sometimes Wish that Americans get a taste of what they are giving the world. Other wise they wouldn't be so damn ignorant. How many rednecks would complain about a mixed race man with a weird name not wearing a stupid flag pin if their children were starving to death and their husbands were being killed at the supermarkets?

#25 Re: Not So Free Chat » Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$ » 2008-05-16 23:04:06

No, private companies are not going to build roads directly, that would violate the purpose of their existence. It would tolerated just as well, if not worse than wasteful spending by the government.

So what does this have to do with my original point. I asked you if  the non government sector would build a mass transit system if the taxes on fuel were low. I'll take that has a no.

Never the less, companies do contribute, just like private citizens, to public coffers by paying taxes. There is two ways go about it, either heavy on the outset, like a 50% tax on gas, which stifles growth and limits the capital available to companies to grow their business. The other is lower at the beginning, but by leaving people more of their own money, they invest it and do more business overall, actually contributing more in taxes, while also making more money. Thus, more money in the public coffers for infrastructure.

Like the Bush tax breaks? If you give rich people lower taxes eventually there will be more money for the government. How did that work out? Oh yeah. It didn't actually increase revenue. It decreased it. Leaving Social Security and Medicare even bigger holes.


As for individual countries use of car, the US does have a different relationship. The small, crowded streets of Europe and Asia are more conducive to the "golf carts" that are inevitably more fuel efficient. These however, would not work well on American roads, were the space and speeds would make them death traps. We like to do things and go places that simply do not exist any other place on Earth. You can cross the largest country in Europe in a train in a day. The same trip would take a week in the US.

Cause and effect. Cheap fuel - Big cars and high travelling.

The trouble with that analogy is were not running out of oil anytime soon. Were not even allowed to explore thanks to the democrats. The Brazilians just found one of the largest reserves ever off their Atlantic coasts. We have Alaska, California, both Florida coasts, Colorado oil shale, Alberta oil sands, god knows were else. It's not an unending supply, and the effort required to get it will increase. That is reason enough to shift to renewable home grown sources.

The trouble with what you said is that it doesn't take into account rising demand. Now thanks to the high prices demand is falling in the US. If the prices went down they would shoot through the roof. Oil will run out. Unless a HUGE reserve several times the size of the Saudi reserves are found.

Well, I suppose those "suffering" from Stockholm really don't "suffer" in the conventional sense.

Not has much has those stuck out in the middle of no where with no food and no chances of anybody coming to rescue them.

In a free country people have the uninfringed right to live and work were ever they want. Believe it or not there isn't employment for every conceivable field on every street corner.

In the UK service jobs are around the corner. Office jobs are usually a bus ride away. Inner city jobs are a train or two away.

By the way. In free countries. People are allowed to shout I have a bomb in planes.

What do the Germans have to do with it?

50 million German-Americans.

The majority of expressed freedoms to come out of the Revolutionary period were direct responses to injustices, real and imagined, committed by the British crown.

Most of it imagined. Like the imagined victory of 1812.

And I don't know were you get your news from, but Katrina, by the time it hit, was not an abnormally bad storm. It just happened to hit in just the right weak spot that was known about since the 1960's when it was flooded by Camillie. For some reason NO likes to play russian roulette with their levees.

There is a difference between 1960 and 2005. In 2005 the waters were warmer then normally leading to a lot of storms. Katrina was just one of many. Waters that were normally to cold to have Hurricanes suddenly had Hurricanes over them.

Less than 1 mile 4%
1 to 4 miles 21%
5 to 9 miles 22%
10 to 19 miles 29%
20 to 29 miles 13%
30 to 49 miles 9%
50 miles or more 2%

So half of the people travelled more then 10 miles on their cars. Very unusual and environmentally dangerous.  I bet they are closing their eyes and just pumping.

With such an easy solution and environmental benefits nearly at hand, it hardly seems like the current oil bubble is a significant problem for the US approach to gasoline taxes and mass transit.

Buying a hybrid would mean that people have spend money on a Japanese car. Something you Conservatives get itchy about. Besides in this economical environment how many people can afford to spend thousands on a car? It wouldn't even help the economy. A train how ever is different. Just buy a season ticket and the money goes to the government and the American company.

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