New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: This forum is accepting new registrations by emailing newmarsmember * gmail.com become a registered member. Read the Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topic in Meta New Mars for other information for this process.

#1 Re: Martian Chronicles » Do you know what book this is? » 2006-09-13 22:37:21

:oops: I just saw that post I made back there in May. My apologies for that one. I forget there are other things besides science fiction writing and publishing. Wait...is there?  8) My wife Gayla keeps saying yes, there is. One of these days I should listen to her...maybe.   

Tom Kalbfus: No, but I did write a book recently called 'The 13th Day of Christmas,'about a first manned mission to Mars. No canals, but it's illustrated with 30 hi-res images. You can see it at the web link below. I won't hawk the address here.  :oops:

#2 Re: Martian Chronicles » Martian Chronicles Rebooted! » 2006-09-13 22:27:08

Some of your story there could be applied to a future Earth... 8)

Also, how long has mankind (in his present form) actually been on the Earth? After you answer that, ask yourself this: How long have say...sharks, been on the Earth?

Explain how we progressed so rapidly and took control of the entire planet in such a short time and you win the Nobel Prize in Science. Unless you believe that Erich von Daniken already gave us the answer a while back.  smile

#3 Re: Water on Mars » CO2 geysers in Mars » 2006-09-13 22:14:47

Stormrage asked:

'Wow i just have to wonder. How did they miss this for years?'

That is a very good question. There are two answers. We didn't have the surface imaging technology until recently to spot features that small. The second reason is that we could use a few people on the ground there to tell us these things...(lol)

Another cheap plug for a manned mission.

#4 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Mars Design & Architecture - ...(how do you visualize it?) » 2006-09-13 21:56:13

The first Martian colony will almost certainly be built UNDERGROUND. There are many reasons, but the biggest is the payload factor. Building underground solves a lot of material problems, at least initially. Later, we will move to the surface... 8)

Another problem is radiation and solar flares. For an excellent rendition of what REALLY happens to someone reletively unprotected who gets hit by a proton event, see the old book 'Space' by James Michener. Now, Michener was no scientist. But, he did his research before writing a book.

In the book, there is an Apollo mission after the last real one. Two astronauts out in their rover are hit by a 'proton event.'  It takes them twenty minutes to get back to their LEM. By the time they reach it, one of them has passed out in the doorway. The other drags him inside and they attempt a quick liftoff. Before the LEM gets a thousand feet off the ground, the other astronaut passes out cold and the LEM crashes. Both their dosimeters are saturated. The astronaut up in the command module is protected a bit better by orbiting the moon, and because of the heat shield. He eventually gets home, but takes a good dose.

The moral here is a simple reality. The thin atmosphere just doesn't provide enough protection. Our guys will have to take a chance on our first visit to Mars, since they will likely be exploring on the surface. After that, it's underground...at least for a few years, and near a water ice source.  Remember the payload. Those domes...will they go to Mars in pieces, after several heavy-lift launches, or be built from indigenous materials? Either possibility is difficult and expensive. Cheaper and easier to manage is establish a first base underground. Then...your payloads can be for other, more important items. Payload and Fuel are the gods of Mars exploration.  8)

#5 Re: Human missions » Ares and Ares » 2006-09-05 21:56:09

In my recent book, 'The 13th Day of Christmas,' NASA and the Canadian Space Agency combine forces to go to Mars. One of the components is a Magnum.

I agree...it's time to quit with this Moon crap and aim a bit higher! roll

#6 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » 18 Satellites Destroyed » 2006-09-05 21:51:07

Or the old N-1 heavy lift rocket...the Russians would likely have beaten us to the moon using their LOK system (smaller system like Apollo with 2 crew and one-person lander) if the N-1 hadn't kept blowing up.

#7 Re: Human missions » The First to Mars - Who will it be? » 2006-08-28 22:36:17

Don't laugh too much, but I believe the two major players on a first manned mission to Mars will more likely be NASA and the Canadian Space Agency. If the U.S. offered to make one of the crew members from Eurospace, they would be the other major player.

Chinese? Not a chance. They have a lot of catching up to do. Just because they orbited a guy doesn't mean they are anywhere near going to Mars.

"This isn't a four-day trip to the Moon, gentlemen. We're talking about keeping human beings alive in hostile environments for more than a year and moving them through space for a few hundred million kilometers. It presents problems..."

#8 Re: Life on Mars » Mars probably CANNOT support life » 2006-08-28 22:18:40

There are a few places on Earth where life is practically non-existent on the surface. One is probably the Atacamba (sic) Desert in Chile. Even there, you could dig down and probably hunt up a few microbes.

Rovers have a very slim chance of actually discovering life on Mars, since they only cover a limited area and can't really go underground.

There is very likely some life remaining on the Red Planet, but it's going to be underground. Two places come to mind:

1) Water occasionally wells to the surface on Mars. NASA pictures show it. Recent upwellings, not ancient ones. Look below the source of the upwellings.

2) Below the surface in caves where water still remains.

One general principle about 'life' in any form: If it ever existed, it is difficult to eliminate completely and totally. Assuming there was once life on Mars, to say that conditions have completely eliminated all remaining life is very unlikely. Life in itself is extremely adaptable, once it gains a foothold, and likely impossible to totally eradicate.

One way to look at it is this:

Imagine for a moment that tomorrow morning conditions on Earth changed to the exact conditions on Mars today. Of course...this would be the immediate end to civilization.  However, in a hundred years, could you say with any certainty that ALL life, right down to the last microbe, would be destroyed? It is much more likely that SOME limited forms of life would somehow survive. This could be the case on Mars, since it is apparent that conditions favoring life were somewhat more favorable in the past.  8)

#9 Re: Not So Free Chat » Mars Mission novel: 'The 13th Day of Christmas.' » 2006-08-27 19:51:16

Ever since I was a shirt-tailed kid going to that crummy little parochial school in Oregon, I wanted to write a book about actually GOING to Mars. I read 'The Martian Chronicles' until the damn cover fell off, and then I read it again...

Well, after reading an article in a 2005 issue of Esquire Magazine, I decided to go ahead and write the Mars novel. By the way, this is what the Esquire article said, in part:

'There are very few good books about actually GOING to Mars.'I took that as a challenge.

After eighteen months of work, and much research through NASA, JPL, and believe it or not, the Canadian Space Agency, the result was
'The 13th Day of Christmas.'

'13th Day' is unlike any novel you have read about a mission to the Red Planet. It's based partially on real facts, although it takes some minor poetic licenses. Conflict between the characters drives this novel from start to end.

It is illustrated with 28 hi-res images for effect. Most of the images came from JPL.

The character of 'Anna Johnson' was partially based on real-life Canadian astronaut Julie Payette, with the permission of the CSA.
To see a preview, just visit the Coming Attractions page at Adventure Books of Seattle. The backstory is quite interesting. No links...if you want to find us, you will.  8)

#10 Re: Meta New Mars » Question about Mars. » 2006-05-27 23:52:51

Won't work...sorry.
It comes down to cost per pound to retrieve these metals and return them to Earth. The cost would be staggering, since sending even a single pound of payload to or from Mars is extremely high. We need better reasons to establish regular bus service to Mars...say colonization.

You want to get metals for use on Earth? See this story:

'Parameter Error,' one of the stories in the sci-fi anthology 'Dimensions.'
You can find it at Adventure Books of Seattle. Miners work for years to attach a low-thrust (and very large) engine to an asteroid and move it into Earth orbit for mining purposes. Surprising results.  8)

#11 Re: Intelligent Alien Life » GUTH Venus is a little too hot - Planetary and life's evolution » 2006-05-27 23:40:03

Venus?
Hot enough to melt lead.
Air pressure about 70 times Earth normal...
Mars?
Overwhelming evidence of flowing water still coming to the surface.
Within our reach...just need the funding. We've known how to go there for years. Remember, if you have water, you have it all.  8)

#12 Re: Martian Chronicles » Do you know what book this is? » 2006-05-21 20:58:35

The closest to this one I know is the story "A Smaller Step," from the anthology 'Dimensions' from Adventure Books of Seattle.

However, the story takes place on the moon, not Mars. Two cosmonauts arrive under much secrecy at the new lunar station recently built by NASA. They ask two American astronauts to drive them out forty miles from the station.
At first, the astronauts balk, saying it is too far to risk, but a letter (basically orders) from the White House that the cosmonauts carry give them no choice.

After a dangerous drive across the lunar landscape, the cosmonauts tell the Americans they will go over a certain ridge alone, and that they need no assistance.

What they find on the other side is the key to the story, and a very surprising ending!
You can see this book at www.lulu.com/adventurebooks

#13 Re: Martian Chronicles » Esquire said what......??? » 2006-03-14 18:00:57

In 2005, Esquire Magazine ran an article stating that there are 'very few good books about actually GOING to Mars...'

What they meant was that there were few films or books dealing with going to Mars in a realistic, hard-science manner.

So, I decided to make my humble contribution to this section of science-fiction.

I am wrapping up the final version of a novel about the first manned mission to the Red Planet. It will be available in July, 2006. It is titled,
'The 13th Day of Christmas.'

Without giving too much of the story away, let's pretend for a moment that a new US President with a bit of vision comes into office and tells the head of NASA that he is committing the nation to a manned mission. Let's suppose further he asks them to do it within 3 1/2 years, when Mars and Earth will be at their closest approach in a decade. The 'rush' program creates a greater risk for the crew, of course.  This is the story of 'The 13th Day of Christmas.' I love writing this stuff, I will admit... 8) The character of 'Anna Johnson' is based (with permission from CSA) partially on real-life Canadian astronaut Julie Payette.

If you'd like to view the covers and see a little preview, just go to the Bookstore page at Adventure Books of Seattle. www.discountebooks.net
There is also a short article and a picture of Ms. Payette on the News and Updates page!

#14 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ultimate Mars Poster » 2006-01-03 02:25:46

Adventure Books is releasing 'The 13th Day of Christmas,' this spring. It's the Mars mission novel based on research obtained through JPL and other sources.

To celebrate the release of the novel, we created a very special bit of Mars, a poster two feet wide and three feet long, containing nine of the best images from the Red Planet, with captions. Total image file is about 200mb and resoluted to 300dpi. We call it the Ultimate Mars Poster. It can set off an entire room. No thumbtacks...buy a frame.

I am not going to insert any links because this isn't some cheap effort to generate a sale. We just figured you may want to see it. To locate it, go to AB and search out the link... 8)

#15 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potlock I » 2005-10-10 20:36:49

Earthfirst said:

"On my reality show where liberals are placed on a temperate island a large group of pople like hunderd or so. But no fliming, just let them sit there for ten years or so. Then come backe and see what kind of society they have formed"

Closest thing I can think of is Love Israel group that lived in and around Seattle from the early 70's to a couple of years ago...when they finally disbanded. Check google. Don't know if it worked or not.

#16 Re: Pictures of Mars » Favorite "Mars" movies » 2005-09-19 23:32:26

This entire thread reminds me of a quote from Esquire magazine last spring:

'There ARE no REALLY good films about actually GOING to Mars.'

The only one that wasn't a loser in one way or another was Robinson Crusoe on Mars. And thank God they killed Adam West off in the beginning and made the OTHER guy Robinson Crusoe, or it probably would've been another Mars Movie loser as well.

One good line from the movie is when he is standing on the edge of a cliff and yells out:  'Hey, Mr. Echo!   Go to hell!" 
Bringing in the alien slave guy 'Friday' was a nice touch, and so was having him rescued in the end... 8)

By the way, as long as I have you here I want to announce that my newest sci-fi action/adventure book is now available in paperback!  (free plug)

I tried to avoid the usual cliches in 'Say Goodbye To The Sun.'
www.lulu.com/adventurebooks

#17 Re: Not So Free Chat » I'll take malaprops for *5* Bob - Apropos of Nothing continues. . . » 2005-09-04 18:48:31

For those of you who don't know Gayla J. Prociv and I, we are science-fiction authors. We live in the Seattle area.

After the hurricane, we sent a little money to the Red Cross, but couldn't think of anything else to do.

Finally, we went into the financial information at our Cafe Press Gift Shop and changed the payee to the Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund. From now until the day after Christmas, all funds from sales at www.cafepress.com/abonlinestore (Adventure Books Gift Shop) go directly to the Red Cross.

I am required to say this: You can verify this information by inquiring at www.cafepress.com and asking about the store listed above.

We took down the Mars Poster we had for sale there and replaced it with a special Katrina Commemorative poster. It contains over 40 high-resolution images of the tragedy and its aftermath, with some added text. We believe it is our best work. You can also see a very good preview and more verification details at www.freewebs.com/adventurebooks

Thanks to those who have already helped.

Robert M. Blevins
Gayla J. Prociv

#18 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-09-01 23:05:09

If you really want to research global warming effectively, then search out through the National Geographic Society. They've been studying it around the world for twenty-five years. In one of their issues (can't remember exactly which one, but it was in the last twelve months) they dedicated half the mag that month to the subject.

One of the things most scientists did not catch on to about global warming was that as the warming increased, the rate that the globe is actually warming has increased exponentially.
You can visualize it as a small circle, slowly expanding. As the circle grows, the rate of growth also continues to increase. The Geo was the first to realize this fact.

Forget about the numbers for a moment. Consider this...In the area where you personally live, have you begun to notice dramatic changes in the climate? I have. I live in the Seattle area, and I have been here since 1966.  The summers are hotter, the winters warmer and wetter and shorter. Last year, my wife and I observed geese heading NORTH three days before Christmas.

The actual rate of warming is increasing each year. Clear back in 1992, the Geographic announced that in the approximately 150 years that reliable weather records have been kept, eight out of the ten hottest years on record, worldwide, had come since 1980. Remember, this was back in 1992. Scientists mostly dismissed this as baloney, but they aren't laughing now...

It's not about thirty, forty, fifty years. Serious changes are occuring now, and the storms will increase next year, and the year after. The ice caps will melt.

Large areas of permafrost in Siberia and Canada are turning to mush in summer.
Glaciers are retreating everywhere at alarming rates.
Three years ago, a team of scientists at the North Pole checked their GPS three times to make sure they were actually AT the pole. Why?  They saw a one-acre patch of open water, which disappeared by the next day. They took video, it appeared on the PBS.

It just goes on...it is not going to get better.
I wish I had better news, but I don't. I think the Geographic is correct. They have been studying the Earth for over a hundred years, and have tons of research to back up their claims. They are not gov't funded.

Robert M. Blevins www.freewebs.com/adventurebooks

Be afraid...be very afraid.

#19 Re: Not So Free Chat » Not the usual Mars items » 2005-08-23 22:49:53

To kick off the release of my new Mars novel, I have created some special Red Planet items over at Cafe Press. There is a 24x36 Mars Poster available, a Mars Calendar, and other things. I call the calendar 'The Ultimate Mars Calendar' because it has 13 of the best images from the Rovers and the Viking Missions, and the total image files were over 300mb. This means 'resolution' in capital letters.

You can see them at www.cafepress.com/abonlinestore

The novel is 'The 13th Day of Christmas.'  A slideshow preview is available on the Coming Soon page at Adventure Books. 

www.freewebs.com/adventurebooks
Research for the novel was gathered in part from the JPL Mars Exploration Program.
Available Christmas, 2005! 8)

#20 Re: New Mars Articles » Last Chance To Download Mars Poster! - Free Mars Poster » 2005-05-13 21:19:46

Had to drop the poster from the site for awhile...
Lot of downloads, though.
It will be returning in July. Preview pic still available onsite. sad

#21 Re: New Mars Articles » Last Chance To Download Mars Poster! - Free Mars Poster » 2005-05-06 02:23:16

UPDATED AND EDITED:

The Bad News: After more than 300 free downloads, we finally had to stop the poster giveaway...
Bandwidth was going crazy!

The Good News: We will be making it available at a small fee (to cover bandwidth costs) after July 1....

We would take this opportunity to thank WritersDigest.com for listing Adventure Books as a 'recommended resource for science-fiction.'

Why they picked us we haven't a clue...;)
big_smile  big_smile

http://www.freewebs.com/adventurebooks]Adventure Books-Creating Dreams in Science-Fiction and Adventure

#22 Re: Human missions » Artificial Gravity » 2005-05-06 01:22:41

If you have doubts about whether a spinning motion could simulate gravity, you should ask Neil Armstrong about what happened when his thruster controls got stuck open while on the Gemini 8 flight...

Oh, yeah...we have gravity now. smile

The cool he demonstrated under pressure during this very dangerous incident was a factor in NASA's decision to make him mission commander on Apollo 11.

#23 Re: Human missions » The reason to go to mars - Going to mars is not a waste of money » 2005-05-05 23:03:00

Revenger says: 
"One of the DRM's calls for an Apollo-type mission to Mars, rather than launching several heavy-lift bodies into orbit first. This means a smaller crew, only one cargo module having to reach Mars before the main spacecraft, and a shorter stay on the surface. (Perhaps 100 days.)"

What? Have you even read the DRM mission plans?

Well, to a degree I have read some of them. And you are correct in your assessments. The 3-person crew, Apollo-type mission was a wildcard that some NASA scientists have been considering very recently. It probably isn't an official DRM yet.

I guess this was the basic idea they were kicking around, probably semi-officially:

1) Send two cargo modules to Mars. One to Mars orbit, one to the actual landing site.
2) Scale down size of crew hab for three people.
3) Construct crew hab, booster, (think 'Lunar Service Module' but larger and more powerful), Earth Return Vehicle (reentry capsule, basically), and Mars Entry Vehicle.
4) Use existing rockets to put needed hardware into LEO.
5) Put crew aboard booster/hab combination, rendezvous with the other two pieces of hardware, and dock.
6) Go to Mars (I believe the possiblility of using strap-on boosters was discussed here, firing half of them to acheive Trans-Mars injection, the other half for the return, using the fuel in the main rocket for course-corrections.)
7) Acheive stable Mars orbit.
8) Separate MEV from main spacecraft and make the landing.
9) Stay on Mars for x-number of days, according to available resources already sent previously.
10) Liftoff from Martian surface, dock with main spacecraft.
11) Refuel from cargo module number two in orbit.
12) Return to Earth.

Okay, I had to paraphrase some of this, since I am not a rocket scientist, and some terms are probably simplistic, but I think this was the basic plan...

#24 Re: Human missions » The reason to go to mars - Going to mars is not a waste of money » 2005-05-05 20:06:35

Some of the posts on this thread are assuming we don't have the tech yet to reach the Red Planet. This is simply not true. One possible DRM uses either the Magnum rocket or the Delta, in the Apollo-type scenario. We have those now, and using a crew of three, with a smaller hab, it is possilble to boost our Mars vehicles into orbit, rendezvous/dock, and head for Mars.
Three basic vehicles are needed. 1) The Mars Entry Vehicle (combo-type, like the LEM possibly)  2) Crew hab 3) ERV capsule for the reentry on the return to Earth. The crew will need some type of cargo module dropped to the surface near their landing site, before they go to Mars.

One reason why some people at NASA want to go the Apollo route is because it is similar in some ways to the actual Apollo, and they had good luck with that system.

I am not a rocket scientist, however. All my research comes from NASA, Eurospace, and organizations such as the Mars Society. I get the idea some of the folks on this forum are more informed than I.

I wrote a book about a first mission to Mars. It's called 'The 13th Day Of Christmas.' Should be available this Christmas, (why not, right?) but it's a drama/adventure with hard science mixed in, not a strictly hard-science-this-is-absolutely-the-only-way book...

This book came about because I read an article in a 2004 issue of Esquire that said: 'there are no good books about actually going to Mars...'

Forget the Moon-Mars thing.

smile  smile  smile

#25 Re: Water on Mars » Salty -and- Fresh Water? » 2005-05-05 00:53:14

Water on Mars?
This is now an easy question to answer, according to NASA.
YES.
Two sources, both currently active, underground and in the ice caps.

The Mars Orbiter pictures have shown RECENT evidence of water upwelling from underground on Mars. These upwells create small channels that often run out after a short distance. I have several pictures onsite showing this feature.

We're not talking about thousands of years ago for the upwells, but in the last few decades. The reason the channels run out after a distance is probably because the water soon evaporates into the atmosphere, due to the low atmospheric pressure...

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB